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Arri Standard / Bayonet mount lenses

arri standard bayonet lens

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#1 Jay Young

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 11:11 AM

I very much love my CP-16.

I found at an incredibly low price a Arri B/standard to CP mount adapter - it's the unit that Visual Products sold a while back.

 

So, where have all the Arri B/Standard mount lenses gone?

I'm looking to build a prime kit.  I would like to find a normal or wide to start with, 25mm or 18mm or so.

For that matter, where are all of the CP primes?

 

I'm totally open to using Russian glass as well, provided I don't need to completely rehouse the lenses.

 

For those that might be tempted: No, I would rather not sell my cp-16 and buy (insert name of "better" camera here).  For that matter, I don't

wish to purchase a new set of whatever for $60,000... I also refuse to pay $5000 for a single 50 year old prime.  If it comes to that

I'll just buy a new one. Not trying to be hateful, just where my thoughts are currently.

 

Edit:  I may not be totally opposed to changing the camera to PL mount, if that's the way things just... "are".


Edited by Jay Young, 12 August 2015 - 11:20 AM.

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#2 Zac Fettig

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 11:59 AM

Most of them got snapped up by people who bought Blackmagic Pocket Cinema cameras and wanted cheap cine glass. Look around, and bide your time. You can get a set of Schneider Primes for $200 to $300 each if you're careful. These days, Zeiss costs more... and Cooke costs more still. 25mm Scheniders are plentiful.

 

The CP-16 is an excellent camera. Why sell it?


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#3 Robert Lewis

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 01:31 PM

Most of them got snapped up by people who bought Blackmagic Pocket Cinema cameras and wanted cheap cine glass. Look around, and bide your time. You can get a set of Schneider Primes for $200 to $300 each if you're careful. These days, Zeiss costs more... and Cooke costs more still. 25mm Scheniders are plentiful.

 

The CP-16 is an excellent camera. Why sell it?

 

One word of caution if I might be permitted to offer it.

 

I recently bought a Schneider Kreutznach 25mm lense, and on delivery it appeared to be in very nice condition. I was very pleased.

 

Unfortunately, however, on being used, it developed a fault. The tiny rivets holding the aperture blades in position (or rather I think one of them) failed with the result that when the aperture was set, a couple of blades collided with each other and were distorted. I was hopeful that I could get the lens repaired, but I learnt that there are simply no spares for these lenses and there was nothing to be done.

 

Fortunately, I had purchased the lens from a dealer who tried unsuccessfuly to get it repaired and they immediately refunded the purchase price.

 

I believe that Schneider Kreuznach lenses are very good lenses, but the lower priced ones are quite old. Lenses can and do develop problems, so just be aware that there may be no spare parts available for them.

 

I attach a picture of what happened to the lens I had.IMG_0655(a).jpg


Edited by Robert Lewis, 12 August 2015 - 01:35 PM.

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#4 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 06:00 PM

With Robert's post in mind, there are still a number of Arriflex-mount lenses available on ebay.  I would just make sure that there are detailed descriptions & photos for any may you consider.  And if the seller does not offer returns, I would move on to the next item.

 

But that's probably the cheapest vendor you will find.


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#5 Miguel Angel

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 09:08 PM

I recently bought and rehoused a set of those old Schneider Kreuznach cine xenon and I cannot be happier (I only miss the 100mm because people are asking for 3000 for it!, crazy!)

They produce beautiful images yet with a very vintage tone and the bokeh is magnificent!

They are very cheap in terms of "cinema lenses" but if you search carefully and take your time, you will get good deals.

Robert, I have a 25mm that I didn't rehouse because it is a Super16 lens and I didn't know that when I bought it, I wouldn't mind sending it to you for free if you are going to give it a good home and you are going to use it 😊

Have a good day!
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#6 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 10:10 PM

Miguel (San Nicolás).  Well done!


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#7 Robert Lewis

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 03:35 AM

Miguel ...

 

That really is a very generous offer, but I was able to use the refund from the dealer to put towards a more expensive replacement 25mm lens. I am sure that your lens would be far more beneficial to a student in cinemaphotography, perhaps one on a tight budget. My contribution to this topic was merely intended to urge caution when purchasing old lenses. I do agree with your comments on the image quality they produce. It is an unfortunate fact of life that if things go wrong and a fault develops it is unlikely that parts will be available to effect a repair. That said, I would not wish it to be thought that I was criticising either the lens,or Schneider Kreuznach and the dealer acted most honourably. Being a realist, I understand that manufacturers cannot be expected to maintain stocks of spare parts for 40 or 50 year old lenses.

 

Best regards, and once again thank you for your generous offer.


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#8 Miguel Angel

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 06:47 AM

No worries! It is on my shelf if anybody wants it

When I was going to buy my set of Schneider I sent an email to Schneider regarding the lenses and if they had some sort of "lens archive" to see the specs and see which ones were made for 35 and which ones for 16.

They kindly answered that they had no idea because the lenses were so old and they did not have a database of old products.

I bought them anyway in a leap of faith

Have a good day!
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#9 Jay Young

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 07:09 AM

Yes, I'm scouring the internet looking for that lone nad lonely 25mm Cinema Products prime.

Someday I'll find one.


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#10 Jean-Louis Seguin

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:17 AM

Look also for Kowa, as they were the original manufacturer. The Kowa version is usually Arri bayonet mount only and has no geared rings, just plain.

 

Jean-Louis


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#11 Miguel Angel

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 01:03 PM

Jay, if you want me to send you my 25mm send me your address and I will post it tomorrow!

Have a good day!
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#12 Zac Fettig

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 02:51 PM

Miguel, what mount does the Schneider 25 have?


Edited by Zac Fettig, 13 August 2015 - 02:51 PM.

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#13 Miguel Angel

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 06:02 PM

Arri Standard Mount, Zac.

Have a good day.
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#14 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 06:30 PM

Hey you guys.  Is this a good place to think about what a "normal" lens for 16mm really is?  Despite some existing definitions,  25mm feels longish.

 

My pet theory.  When we start watching a film, the photography is capable of quickly normalizing our "seeing" towards lenses that are longer or shorter.

 

Were there some common tendencies in the lens choices back in the day and some visual or cultural normalization remains from that.  I suppose I would have to watch a lot of old English and German TV to begin thinking about it.


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#15 Jay Young

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 07:26 PM

Gregg you bring up a very good point.

When I think normal, I think eyeball.  And to my eyeball, a 50mm on a 35 still camera is normal - to me.

When I think 16mm, I get the same sensation from about 32mm lens.  Lets call it a little bigger than 30.

When I see 25mm, it gives me the ability to move the camera about more if I need to frame a bit tighter, or I need to place the camera in a weird local.  25mm to me provides

simply more movement.

 

It's interesting to you that 25mm feels long, because 10mm feels REAL wide. I don't know that there are a lot of choices between those two numbers unless we're talking big bucks.

Perhaps an 18mm for compromise?


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#16 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 07:57 PM

Have a look at this set on eBay.  Im sure I remember a 16mm and I think a 12mm,  but maybe the 12mm wasn't a simple match.  Can't remember.

 

Actually,  if this set is in really good nick,  it may be quite a good deal.

 

Re the normal thing.  My brain is wired so that the 16mm focal length feels about it.


Edited by Gregg MacPherson, 13 August 2015 - 07:59 PM.

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#17 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:11 PM

Knew I forgot something

http://www.ebay.com/...#ht_1472wt_1366

 

This set popped up straight away,  took 20 seconds to find.


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#18 Jay Young

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:13 PM

I should mention that I'm all regular 16 over here. Nothing super... well, most of the time I think I'm personally super. HA!


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#19 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:22 PM

There was no S16 when those were made,  I think.  Some may have enough image circle diameter for S16,  some of the longer ones may be for 35mm motion picture format.


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#20 Robert Lewis

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 01:44 PM

Looking at the pictures of the lenses offered on ebay, I am reminded that one needs to be very careful with the use of older Schneider Kreuznach lenses  fitted with Arri Standard mounts. Those which can be used on 35mm cameras generally (the lenses with hardly any protusion beyond the rear of the mount) can, I believe, be used without any difficulty on any 16mm camera using an Arri standard mount, although they will not strictly reproduce the stated focal length of the lens in question. Those with the small diameter protrusion are true 16mm lenses and can be used on a 16mm camera, but it is a good idea to check the clearance of the lens in relation to a mirror shutter (as on an Arri SR camera) to make sure that the rotating mirror will not collide with the rear of the lens when fitted. The third type of lens, that is to say those with two stage protrusions, have to be handled with particular care when used on cameras fitted with a mirror shutter. My understanding is that they will not be a problem on, say, Arri S type cameras, but they too should be checked carefully. However there might well be a problem with Arri SR cameras on which the distance between the mirror and the rear of the mount was reduced. On these, my understanding is that there is a real risk of collision and damage to the mirror shutter. Just thought I should mention this.

 

I am not sure whether this is relevant to CP-16 cameras, as I have no experience with that particular make of camera.


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