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B/w Super8 with Kodak Vision


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#1 Maia Martin

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 06:39 AM

Hallo!

 

I need to shoot some super8 scened in Black and White. I don't have much experience with super8 but I would like to achieve clean pictures, with as much detail as possible, not too much noise.  I will shoot both in daylight and at night.

Someone suggested that I use the Kodak Vision 200 and 500 and bring it to balck and white in post production, since negative film is more precise than reversal.

 

What do you think about that?

Did someone do that before?

 

Thank you


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#2 Roberto Pirodda

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 10:07 AM

to get clean picture w/o noise in Super 8 is a challenge :-( anyway, in daylight scene you could use Vision 3 50D nowadays the sharpest filmstock. Use tele/middletele lenses. f5.6 iris gives the best out from every lens, from the most economic to most expensive ones. In night scenes Vision 500 is the way to go, but expect coarse grain. Overexposing negative filmstock ( about 1/3 to 1/2 f stop) gives less noticeable noise. Use good S8 camera with C-mount lens like Beaulieu ZM if possible, and fit a 35mm still lens at full aperture ( with proper c-mount adapter) for night shots.

Good luck


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#3 Zac Fettig

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 10:39 AM

They shot "The Artist" on color film (albeit 35mm) and turned the saturation down in post.

 

Heck, if you just get a DVD copy of "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" and turn the saturation all the way down on your TV, it's a much better movie.

 

Noise and jitter are big problems in super 8. Not much you can do about that. If you really want a clean film image, move up to 16mm or 35mm. Part of the charm of super 8 is the lack of clean image.

 

Double-x isn't available in super 8 and Plus-x was discontinued years ago. The only options in B&W film stock today are Tri-X and Wittner-54. Personally, I don't like Tri-X much. The Wittner 54 (repackaged ORWO UN-54; it can be used as either negative or reversal) would be an ideal choice (since you're in Europe. It's not availble in the US). Kodak Vision3 with the saturation turned down would also work very well.


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#4 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 01:04 PM

I can't imagine how bad vision 3 500asa will look in super 8, its pretty grainy in 16mm as it is.

For super 8, you really need to be in the 50 - 100asa range to keep the grain down and have some sense of a clean image. Since you really can't get 100 anymore, you're kinda stuck with 50. So lighting your night scenes appropriately will be your biggest challenge.

Desaturating in post is what most people do anyway, so that's not a problem.
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#5 Lasse Roedtnes

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 03:22 PM

Hi Tyler,

 

I can't imagine how bad vision 3 500asa will look in super 8, its pretty grainy in 16mm as it is.

For super 8, you really need to be in the 50 - 100asa range to keep the grain down and have some sense of a clean image. Since you really can't get 100 anymore, you're kinda stuck with 50. So lighting your night scenes appropriately will be your biggest challenge.

Desaturating in post is what most people do anyway, so that's not a problem.

 

I think 500T can look fantastic just see here:

 

especially the lamp shot I think is one of my favorites

 

All the best

Lasse


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#6 Will Montgomery

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 03:25 PM

Good Night, and Good Luck was shot on Vision 500T color stock then the color was removed in post. That gets you a finer grain film with decent ASA.

 

In Super 8, you will still get a "small format" look but it will be much less contrasty than a B&W reversal film.


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#7 Will Montgomery

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 03:28 PM

I can't imagine how bad vision 3 500asa will look in super 8, its pretty grainy in 16mm as it is.

Huh? Vision 3 500T is amazing and is BY FAR the most used motion picture stock. Yes, it can be more grainy but that is more about the lighting...if you try to shoot 500T in minimal light as most people in small format would do, it will be grainy. Light it properly in 16mm and you'd be fine. Super 8; yes more grainy than 50D of course but not unusable...just light it well.


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#8 Maia Martin

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 04:49 PM

Thanks everyone for answering and for the great advice.

 

@Lasse, that actually looks very good, not so much grain as I expected. This stock seems to vary quite a lot, according to different tests I have seen on the internet. 

 

Is it true the negative film stock is somehow more precise than the reversal (more detail)?


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#9 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 05:31 PM

If you light things properly, you can get away with a higher ASA stock and reduce that grain.
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#10 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 06:40 PM

I can't imagine how bad vision 3 500asa will look in super 8, its pretty grainy in 16mm as it is.

 

I have to disagree with that one.  I was going for a grainy look on 7219 for my last project and wound up having to push it 2 stops to get it.  All of the Kodak stocks have become rather fine-grained these days, including 7219.


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#11 Matt Stevens

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:56 AM

500T is going to be grainy, no matter what you do. I chose it for that reason when I shot a short film that involed nudity and  :blink: masturbation. I didn't want it to look like a porno. 

 

I'm in pre-production on a project that will be shot on Super8 and we are shooting almost exclusively on Vision2 200T, which will be converted to B&W in post. 

 

The few exterior shots will be photographed on 50D and we do have some shots to nail in the NYC Subway system, and for those we are using 500T.


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#12 Maia Martin

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 11:16 AM

Very interesting Matt!....is there something of what you shot on 500t visible online?


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#13 Matt Stevens

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 06:44 PM

Miscommunications...

 


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#14 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:13 PM

The 50D stuff looks great! ;)
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#15 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 11:31 AM

Hi Matt.  I liked that film very much.  Very interesting concept.  The interiors seemed a bit flat, but I liked the shot where she is looking at herself in the mirror - the practical lamp in the background is very nicely blown-out.

 

Also, I always watch reels and shorts with the sound off, then again with it on.  It would have been even more effective without the voice-over because you conveyed everything very clearly with the imagery.

 

In any case, nice job.


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#16 christophernigel

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 01:22 PM

Hallo!

 

I need to shoot some super8 scened in Black and White. I don't have much experience with super8 but I would like to achieve clean pictures, with as much detail as possible, not too much noise.  I will shoot both in daylight and at night.

Someone suggested that I use the Kodak Vision 200 and 500 and bring it to balck and white in post production, since negative film is more precise than reversal.

 

What do you think about that?

Did someone do that before?

 

Thank you

It 's the other way around ? to shoot reversal Film imeans you  need to get it right / with Negative film  you can over or under  Expose  and then fix in post .


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