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strange fog on film


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#1 Anshul Chobey

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 06:28 AM

hi everyone,
i have been shooting a Super 16 feature in london and have been working with technicolor for the processing.
recently in one of the camera rolls i noticed that there is a strange kind of edge fog. the fog extends into the picture area and its maximum towards the end of the roll.i have seen fog like this on the neg which can be attributed to old stock or light leak while loading or pressure but this has been strange because it is inconsistent.
one can see it for 4 frames and then it goes for the next 24 frames and this happens all along the roll.the telecine colorist are unable to explain anything whatsoever
can anyoone think of a reason for this kind of fog on film
regards
Anshul Chobey
India
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#2 Dominic Case

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 08:34 AM

Does the fog appear exactly every 24 frames throughout the roll - or does it get closer together progressively through the roll (and if so, is it more frequent at the head or the tail of the roll?)

ANd, what colour is the fog in positive? (ie on the print or the telecine transfer).
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#3 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 08:29 PM

hi everyone,
i have been shooting a Super 16 feature in london and have been working with technicolor for the processing.
recently in one of the camera rolls i noticed that there is a strange kind of edge fog. the fog extends into the picture area and its maximum towards the end of the roll.i have seen fog like this on the neg which can be attributed to old stock or light leak while loading or pressure but this has been strange because it is inconsistent.
one can see it for 4 frames and then it goes for the next 24 frames and this happens all along the roll.the telecine colorist are unable to explain anything whatsoever
can anyoone think of a reason for this kind of fog on film
regards
Anshul Chobey
India

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Can you post an image of the fogged film? Any chance the unprocessed film went though airline x-ray security inspection?:

http://www.kodak.com...1.4.11.10&lc=en

Posted Image
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#4 Andrea Altgayer

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 07:31 PM

Hi there,

Believe me, I am far from being an expert, but it sounds like it was the result of moisture buildup in the gate.

I wish I had an answer for you about how to fix it, but I would love to hear the others' responses, because I still have lots to learn.

Bye,

Andrea
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#5 MiguelDelValle

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:15 AM

John

I should print these and bring them with me next time I have to argue with airport security nonsense agents.

When they say that their machines wont fog the film its final, you wont go trough to the airplane if you dont pass the cans trough the machine, period, final, they wont listen any arguments, and your changing bag wont convince them.

Frustrating.
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#6 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 05:34 AM

John

I should print these and bring them with me next time I have to argue with airport security nonsense agents.

When they say that their machines wont fog the film its final, you wont go trough to the airplane if you dont pass the cans trough the machine, period, final, they wont listen any arguments, and your changing bag wont convince them.

Frustrating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Remember, those examples are from a very powerful x-ray SCANNER (much like a CAT Scan Machine) used for screening CHECKED baggage. NEVER put unprocessed film in CHECKED baggage. The smaller x-ray conveyer belt machines usually used for CARRY-ON baggage may fog film too (especially with multiple passes), but usually not as severely. Always request a hand inspection, and carry a changing bag and be sure there is enough time for the security personnel to do a hand inspection. Note that explosive "sniffers" (the film can is wiped with a pad and the pad is put into a machine for chemical analysis) and magnetometer (wand or walk-through portal) inspection will NOT harm unprocessed film.

Use of lead lined bags will NOT offer protection, as the security personnel will usually just turn up the power or do multiple passes to inspect the suspicious opaque (lead) object.
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#7 Karel Bata

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Posted 25 June 2005 - 05:56 AM

I think it is a very good idea to print that Kodak info out and take it with you. The guys on the x-rays desks are only doing a job and they hear scare stories all day long. Something you have with a tad of authority can only help.

Be nice to hear from anyone if this approach actually helps :)


BTW Musicians can download something from their union's website that includes a copy of written dialog between them and airport security representatives where an agreement was reached about carrying expensive guitars as hand luggage.
John, wouldn't it be nice if Kodak tried to negotiate something similar? ;)

Edited by Karel Bata, 25 June 2005 - 05:56 AM.

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#8 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 12:43 PM

I think it is a very good idea to print that Kodak info out and take it with you. The guys on the x-rays desks are only doing a job and they hear scare stories all day long. Something you have with a tad of authority can only help.

Be nice to hear from anyone if this approach actually helps  :)
BTW Musicians can download something from their union's website that includes a copy of written dialog between them and airport security representatives where an agreement was reached about carrying expensive guitars as hand luggage.
John, wouldn't it be nice if Kodak tried to negotiate something similar?  ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Kodak was able to negotiate allowing hand inspection for all professional motion-picture films:

http://www.tsa.gov/p...90005198004a860

Specialty film **

Specialty film is defined as film with an ASA/ISO 800 or higher and typically used by professionals.

At the passenger security checkpoint, you should remove the following types of film from your carry-on baggage and ask for a hand inspection:
Film with an ASA/ISO 800 or higher
Highly sensitive X-ray or scientific films
Film of any speed which is subjected to X-ray surveillance more than 5 times (the effect of X-ray screening is cumulative)
Film that is or will be underexposed
Film that you intend to 'push process'
Sheet film
Large format film
Medical film
Scientific film
Motion picture film
Professional grade film


Don't forget to allow PLENTY of time for hand inspection (make pre-arrangements with airport security if possible), and take along a changing bag and a can of "practice" film for the inspector. Magnetometers (wands and walk-through), explosive "sniffers" (including dogs ;) ), and other inspection devices that do not use X-rays are generally safe for unprocessed film.

Unfortunately, if the security lines are busy, the inspectors may refuse to take time for a hand inspection, forcing you to either put the film through the low dose carry-on inspection (can cause fog buildup) or missing your flight.

NEVER put unprocessed film of any kind in CHECKED baggage on a passenger airline, as high-intensity x-ray scanners are very likely to be used for CHECKED baggage.
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#9 Karel Bata

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 12:58 PM

Kodak was able to negotiate allowing hand inspection for all professional motion-picture films:

http://www.tsa.gov/p...90005198004a860

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Excellent! Thanks for the reply!

I'm posting that link in a forum I run in the UK at http://ukfilm.forumc...OPIC_ID~320.asp
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#10 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 01:01 PM

Excellent! Thanks for the reply!

I'm posting that link in a forum I run in the UK at http://ukfilm.forumc...OPIC_ID~320.asp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Remember, that is a TSA (Transportation Security Administration) policy, specific to the USA. Other countries may have different policies, but the inspectors may agree to a hand inspection more readily if you show the USA policy documentation.
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#11 Karel Bata

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 01:05 PM

Exactly my thinking. ;)
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