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Beaulieu R16


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#1 Léonard Garcia

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 01:46 PM

Hello, i'm looking for an R16 to shoot a documentary project next year. But i'm wondering if it's better to choose a handheld mecanic one, or an electric one (noise and batery system to buy and fix). (I'm a film camera stranger...)

Any advice?
How many fps can go the mecanic one? Is it the same than an electric? when you crank manually, does it engages the film as regularely than an electric one?

Many thanks

Léonard


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#2 Will Montgomery

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 02:34 PM

Electric. A motor is a must. Also should be a reflex viewfinder so you can focus properly.

 

It's not fun to constantly wind a camera, especially if it's for a documentary.


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#3 Alex Nelson

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 03:21 PM

I have an electric R16 that was converted to Ultra 16mm and it is a brilliant little camera. It has a good range of speeds and absolutely purrs when compared to clockwork, wind-up cameras. I also have a crank-based Pathe 16mm newsreel camera and, between the two, I find the Pathe better suited to run-and-gun shooting. Its pellicle viewfinder is more accurate, focus-wise, than the Beaulieu. It doesn't flicker and offers a positive confirmation of focus which the Beaulieu doesn't. R16's have a nice, compact battery design, but you need to make sure that the batteries are reliable (likely recelled) and that the charger hasn't degraded too much. Wind-up cameras like the Pathe or Bolex obviously don't have that particular hurdle.


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#4 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 04:10 PM

... when you crank manually, does it engages the film as regularely than an electric one?.....
 

 

Just in case there is some confusion....The crank you see on the side of a Bolex (for example) is to wind a spring. Cameras that hand crank to drive the film are something else.

 

Which camera is best for your documentary depends on the style or nature of the film.


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#5 Simon Wyss

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 05:36 AM

The spring-driven R 16 runs at any speed between 8 and 64 frames per second. You can even turn through from 64 down to 8 or the opposite. The mechanism must be thoroughly cleaned and lubricated correctly by a technician, if you want to go on a shoot.

 

I don’t quite agree with Alex what concers the viewfinder. The Beaulieu Reflex 16 has a planoconvex lens with a ground flat on which one can focus accurately. The Pathé WEBO M has a ground glass lens as well, some models with a central matte spot only, some with a full-frame matte. Since I know exactly about both cameras I strongly recommend Beaulieu.

 

The main problem with the spring R 16 is its small base. Technically, you can wind the spring up during takes due to the going barrel it has but the camera will nod while you turn the crank ruining the scene. The Pathé WEBO M has a large base surface and a very low optical axis but the spring cannot be tensioned while the mechanism is running. Frame rates are from 8 to 80 with a stop on either one.

 

The Beaulieu shutter opening corresponds to 144 degrees with a disc shutter, the Pathé one equals to 180 degrees. It’s in fact a flutterby* shutter with two blades revolving at half speed.

_________________

 

*Flutterby is the correct term. Somehow it became butterfly, complete bosh.


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#6 Léonard Garcia

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 06:24 AM

Thank's for all your answers. 

My principle concern is about "means economy, i don't really know how to say in english, because i shoot all alone and i need to reason conviniently of what cam is more pratical to bring and use. This use is experimental, that's why i asked for the fps, because idlike to do animation and slowmotion as 24fps...I'm thinking about an electric one with a new portable battery... what do you think about "Du-all" ones?

Regards

 


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#7 Simon Wyss

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 06:56 AM

Forgot to mention that the spring Beaulieu can be driven by an electric motor.

 

Beaulieu Reflex 16 mit Elektromotor.JPG

 

Speed is set and maintained by the mechanical governor of the camera.


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#8 Alex Nelson

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:07 AM

Do you know, Simon, if the R16 viewfinder you described was common across all models? Mine seems to rely on the eyepiece diopter being accurately set on the crosshairs in order to judge focus. Even then, the flicker from the mirror makes it difficult for a single operator to confirm if the subject is sharp. My Pathe, which is a Professional Reflex-16 AT, has a viewing system that bypasses the shutter and offers a focusing screen with a microprism (or something that functions similarly), making it much easier to keep the subject sharp. I'm not familiar with any variations there may have been in each line of cameras and model to model, but between my two cameras, the Pathe has been more reliable for focus.


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#9 Léonard Garcia

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:48 AM

 

 

Forgot to mention that the spring Beaulieu can be driven by an electric motor.

Wow... Should be hard to find... Isn't it?

 

 

Do you know, Simon, if the R16 viewfinder you described was common across all models?

Alex, can you describe what you see exactly? Is the flickering really restrictive?

 


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#10 Alex Nelson

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 11:14 AM

The flickering in the finder isn't any better or worse than your average Arriflex, but you presumably don't have an AC pulling focus on an R16. Maybe somebody who's more accustomed to focusing by eye on such a viewing system would have sharper footage, but my eye tends to focus past the crosshairs and tricks me into thinking something is crisp.


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#11 Simon Wyss

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 01:54 AM

The optical parts of a Beaulieu R 16 finder stand openly in the mechanism. It is most probable that a ground glass becomes oily and dirty. Then one has a difficulty with focusing. We are talking about amateur consumables, not professional products.

 

It is a major disassembly job to clean those parts: loosen the right screws that hold the viewfinder tube, withdraw the tube, undo the tiny set screws that hold the distance rings, remove all rings and lenses. The mechanism must be taken out of the housing. The turret front is to be detached for that. It’s ridiculous.

 

With a Pathé WEBO M you cannot clean the back side of the pellicle without total disassembly of the camera and to clean the front side is very dangerous.

 

Among the amateur cameras with a reflex finder the Paillard-Bolex H-16 models stand out. Ground glass and prism can be kept clean without complications. The price one pays for this is the optical implication of the prism block. Please read about that under the forum’s Bolex section.

 

The professional cameras for 16mm film have come down in price so far that any investment in amateur gear is useless. Reparation also gets more and more expensive, especially on Pathé WEBO M, Eumig C 16, Beaulieu R 16, Paillard-Bolex H 16, Meopta Admira 16 C, and others. The only ciné camera I’d like to get in my hands is a Facine. If somebody has such an oldtimer, willing to give it to me for a loving overhaul or to sell it, please contact me.


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#12 Josh Gladstone

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 02:06 PM

My Beaulieu R16 is like this. The viewfinder is oily/dirty on the right half, so that focusing is still possible on the left side of the viewfinder, and then I use the whole viewfinder for framing. It's inconvenient, and I'd love to get it cleaned, but it doesn't seem like it's worth disassembling the whole thing.


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#13 ZHAOYANG CHANG

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 02:27 AM

Please notice that R16 is cheap to buy but most of them needs service and new battery.

I had a spring drive R16, I bought it 10 years ago and overhauled at Bjorn in Sweden.

It will run about 20 sec. at 24 fps. and the speed will slow down after 14 sec.

The electric model will running without stop and possible to use 200' magazine

R16 is a light weight compact reflex c mount camera easy to use , but it needs some practice to load film, specially for outdoor use.


Edited by ZHAOYANG CHANG, 03 October 2015 - 02:41 AM.

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#14 Simon Wyss

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 04:51 AM

Ooh, that doesn’t sound so nice. The spring pulls about 480 frames, so 20 seconds at sound speed is correct, but a drop of speed should be attacked. If the bores for the governor shaft or at some other point are worn out, nothing can be done cheaply. Fresh bushings would remedy the affair but that would mean $$$£££. Like with most of the amateur cameras lubrication is neglected, yet, owners expect like-new performance.

 

I’m not saying that you do, only the majority of humanity does. Things are used and regarded worthless when they don’t function properly any more. Care and maintenance must be learnt.

 

 

Loading is quite simple when one knows the trick. Have the mechanism run, not too fast, and push the film down onto the feed sprocket. It will be taken up instantly. Stop mechanism. Swing gate open, insert film, set upper loop so that it bisects the circular button, close gate, set lower loop by pushing film onto second sprocket and run mechanism. You can pull the sprocket guide triangle up and out.


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#15 Rudy Velez Jr

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:39 PM

 I would go with the spring wound one, yes it can be annoying but the wind up cameras can last longer than the electronics and like it was mentioned before, you can attach a motor to wind up R 16, finding a motor might be hard but if you save up some $ ask a tech to make you one, i don't know who but I am sure someone out there can for the right $$$ but that is not really needed and you can make a doc without sync sound,its been done and will continue to be done with wind up 16mm cameras.

 

I say go for the wind up, also you can get K3 or H16 as a another wind up.

THE H16 uses c mount so you can use the same lenses and the K3 has a nice sharp zoom lens that it comes with and a M42 or bayonet mount which opens the door for more lens choiceS ( m42 still glass or bayonet mount Russian 16mm glass which is totally underrated and AWESOME )


Edited by Rudy Velez Jr, 11 October 2015 - 08:41 PM.

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#16 Rudy Velez Jr

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:42 PM

There is also the Canon Scoopic which is totally easy to use and can be made crystal sync. I would get either an M or MS.

Very good camera the M and MS versions.


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