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Super 16mm transferred at 4x3


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#1 Ryan Navazio

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 09:43 AM

I recently shot some plus x negative super 16mm for a documentary. While the entire documentary will remain in the native 16mm aspect ratio, I would like to have it transferred at 4x3 for use as b-roll in a separate project. What I'm wondering is, if I have the super 16 transferred at a 4x3 aspect ratio and they have to zoom in slightly in the telicine, what type of grain should I expect? I know there are signigant grain reductions that can be done, but I'm wondering if the film will be horribly grainy in full screen.
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 10:05 AM

I recently shot some plus x negative super 16mm for a documentary. While the entire documentary will remain in the native 16mm aspect ratio, I would like to have it transferred at 4x3 for use as b-roll in a separate project. What I'm wondering is, if I have the super 16 transferred at a 4x3 aspect ratio and they have to zoom in slightly in the telicine, what type of grain should I expect? I know there are signigant grain reductions that can be done, but I'm wondering if the film will be horribly grainy in full screen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Super-16 is widescreen and when cropped on the sides to 4x3 for telecine, it is the same size as regular 16mm so there is no increase in grain compared to having shot in regular 16mm. In fact, when comparing Super-16 transferred cropped to 4x3 to Super-16 transferred nearly full-frame to 16x9, the grain should be the same because it's not an enlargement -- both transfers use the same amount of film vertically (more or less) -- it's just that the 16x9 transfer can hold all the horizontal information as well.

Grain looks reduced, however, when Super-16 is transferred to 16x9 and converted to 4x3 with a 1.78 letterbox, or transferred to 4x3 with a 1.78 letterbox, because then the image is being reduced in size (i.e. it's smaller on the 4x3 TV set and harder to see the grain.)
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#3 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 10:38 AM

The image areas for telecine transfer are all specified in standard SMPTE 96M-2004:

35- and 16-mm Motion-Picture Film ?
Scanned Image Area
1 Scope
This standard specifies the size and location of that portion of 35- and 16-mm motion-picture film to be
captured by a scanning device for 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratio.


http://www.smpte.org...tore/standards/

The visibility of grain is directly proportional to the magnification of the image and the viewing distance of the audience.
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#4 Relentless Filmaker

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 12:50 PM

Why dont you want to use the entire image, why not shoot reg 16 if you just want to go 4x3. I would matte the 4x3 footage you already have, and do a widescreen transfer in telecine. That way you can use your whole image.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 01:00 PM

Why dont you want to use the entire image, why not shoot reg 16 if you just want to go 4x3. I would matte the 4x3 footage you already have, and do a widescreen transfer in telecine. That way you can use your whole image.

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Why not shoot Super-16 -- then he can get EQUALLY good 16x9 and 4x3 versions. I see no reason to shoot in regular 16mm anymore unless you are buying a cheaper camera and that's all you can afford, or if you need a 16mm print. Otherwise, Super-16 gives you both options, 4x3 and 16x9.
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#6 Ryan Navazio

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:47 PM

Why dont you want to use the entire image, why not shoot reg 16 if you just want to go 4x3. I would matte the 4x3 footage you already have, and do a widescreen transfer in telecine. That way you can use your whole image.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


from my first post.
"While the entire documentary will remain in the native 16mm aspect ratio, I would like to have it transferred at 4x3 for use as b-roll in a separate project."

The separate project can not be matted because it was not shot with the intention of being 4x3, If it was matted alot of the original material would be no good.

Edited by Ryan Navazio, 26 May 2005 - 03:53 PM.

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#7 Ryan Navazio

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:48 PM

Thanks for the tips.
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