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SONY HDV-Z1


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#1 pinerman

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 11:15 AM

Hello, I'm planning to shoot a feature with the new SONY Z1, I'd like to know in which mode is better to shoot in order to get a good transfer to film. I am also editing on the new Final Cut Pro 5, I really don't know if this software can do a pulldown to 24p once I digitize my footage.

If anyone knows anything about this, please give me some advice, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you all.

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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 01:08 PM

Pulldown is something ADDED to 24P to get up to 60i, or something you REMOVE from 60i to get back to 24P (if you had shot in 24P and converted to 60i.)

Trouble is that the Sony HDV camera does not shoot 24P; it only captures at 50i or 60i. It creates a fake 24P look (24F, or "CineFrame") by processing the interlaced-scan capture, then converts it back to interlaced-scan -- basically a "film look" processing. I would avoid it for anything to be transferred to film.

Your best bet (other than finding a true 24 or 25P camera...) is to shoot in 50i mode, which can be converted by the people doing the film-out to 25P and transferred 1:1 to film (one frame of video = one frame of film). Or you can convert it to 25P yourself.

Since most likely it will then be projected at 24 fps, not 25 fps, you'll have to adjust your audio to match. Same issues as when shooting in PAL for a film-out.

Of course, shooting in 50i mode will be no different than shooting with any other PAL camera other than you're at 1080i, in terms of motion rendition. But that's the problem with shooting with a non-progressive-scan camera.
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#3 lumisphere

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 09:57 AM

Hello there....I just got hired to shoot a feature with HRV-Z1U camera.....I have little time or no time to make any tests....Is there any technical issues with this camera that I should keep my eye on constantly? Also, Has anybody shot with this camera and can give me settings that best work for them? maybe I can try.

I heard that it is not very good with motion because of its MPEG compression.

The film is intended to be blown up to 35mm print. I have never done a blow up before and this will be the first. Basically I'm trying to achieve clean blacks slightly higher contrast and muted pastell colors. Should I clean up the blacks in the colour correction stage? or Could I use a contrasty film stock (release print) that will give back clean blacks and restore some of the details.

In terms of the camera's contrast? Would it help to use BPM to soften the edges or even LowCon to desaturate the colors? Or even a combination of the two. Does the camera render it well?

thanks
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 10:58 AM

Unless you think the image transferred to 35mm and projected on the big screen looks too sharp, don't use diffusion except for tight close-ups that need the help. You HAVE to test out to film before applying a lot of diffusion.

You'd get cleaner results if you just used fill light and careful exposure to control contrast, as well as Polas and ND grads when appropriate.

IF you really need to lower contrast without softening the image, the choices, filter-wise, are really just Tiffen UltraCons or Schneider DigiCons. LowCons will soften the image.

You'd want to color-correct to make sure your blacks are at "0". And it does help to print the film-out on a print stock with a higher D-max, like Fuji Hi-Con or Kodak Vision Premier.

Color saturation is so easy to adjust when doing the final color-correction that I see no reason to use filters to do this. Smoke, on the other hand, may look nice for interiors and also soften colors. Adjusting it in art direction first is best.

You should use filters like BPM when you want a BPM look.

Also, there is a difference between being sharp and being sharpened. HD is not as high resolution as 35mm and the Sony HDV is a little softer than a pro HD camera & lens. But most cameras use edge enhancement (Detail) to sharpen the image artificially, which looks ugly on the big screen because you see the little edges around everything. Before I'd soften the image with filters, I'd first turn down the Detail level in the camera. Don't find yourself fighting Detail with Diffusion, because then you end up with a soft image with edge enhancement artifacts still there.

TEST, TEST, TEST. If not, play it safe and use the lightest filter possible or no filter. You can always soften something in post if necessary.

I'd cram anything important I need to see (basically exposure range and filtration) into a 2-minute test and see if your film-out company will transfer it for you for a small price or for free.
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#5 Dan Diaconu

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 11:44 AM

Aside from all camera settings, you may want to check out this:

http://dandiaconu.co...CTURES/IMGA0639
http://dandiaconu.co...CTURES/IMGA0655
and if you are concerned about image getting softer or light loss, see all tests on this page:
http://dandiaconu.co...ESTS/IMGA0660TU

There are a lot less optics than found in mini or pro35 (actually only a moving screen at the focal plane of a prime)

I am in Vancouver and if you want to see the device first hand and try it on Z1, all you have to do is call me at 604-780-1818 and we can arrange it. Good luck with your feature.
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#6 pinerman

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 06:18 PM

Thank you for your comments.

I heard that it was better to shoot 60i and then convert to 24p, instead of shooting PAL or 50i.

What do you think?
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#7 Elhanan Matos

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 06:50 PM

I just got back from Laser Pacific in Hollywood froma color timing session, we watched the HVR-Z1U recorded in 50i and converted to 24 fps in lustre (I think, it was lustre) the motion and sharpness impressed everyone, the Director, DP, and even the employees from Laser Pacific were impressed. I should be seeing the film out tomorrow morning.
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 09:31 PM

Thank you for your comments.

I heard that it was better to shoot 60i and then convert to 24p, instead of shooting PAL or 50i.

What do you think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


50i converts better to 25P than 60i does to 24P, and 25P is so close to 24P as to be practically the same. It's basic math. 50 converts easily into 25.
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#9 David Cox

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 08:07 AM

Do also remember that this camera is a "prosumer" camera - which has more letters from "consumer" than it does from "professional" and that is a fair balance. Don't expect it to perform anywhere near as well as a "proper" HD camera, like a F950, viper etc. Remember that this entire camera costs significantly less than just a decent lens for those cameras, so don't expect mirracles! I have come across a couple of people who have shot with HDV and used it to "prove" their point that "HD cameras are rubbish" - hardly a reasonable test!
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#10 pinerman

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 08:42 PM

Ok, so 50i is the best to mode to shoot on for a film transfer, thank you very much.
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#11 lumisphere

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 08:20 PM

Thanks fellas.....Principal starts tomorrow so wish me luck.....Shot some tests these past days....I now feel that I should just shoot it clean with no diffusion in front of the lens since I dont have the previllage to see the film blowup before start shooting this film. I noticed the camera has a setting for detail from 0 - 15.....The original preset was set to 15, does anybody have any recomendation which number is best for blowup? Cuz on the 12" PAL monitor it looks good even at 0......I also heard that the Panavison's HD's detail (sharpness) is set to low? is this the same principle here?

SAVE ME!!!!
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#12 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 11:34 PM

It's always a good idea to keep the Detail low or off, especially in HD since it needs it less than SD. You can always add more in post but you can't remove it once you've shot with it, so use a small amount.

I'm only assuming that with a scale of 0 to 15, that 15 is the heaviest amount (the Sony F900 levels for Detail go from -99 to +99, with most people either turning it off or using it around -60 or so, except for material for TV only, where more Detail is acceptable, so maybe the middle "0" level is used.) Panavision usually recommends turning Detail off.

In your case, I'd probably use 0 to 5, assuming that 0 is the lowest level of Detail possible.
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