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Ideas with lighting my simple scene


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#1 Jae Solina

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 03:14 PM

Hello good people! I have a simple scene that takes place in a laundry room that involves two actors. My original plan is as shown in this amazing diagram of mine. My question is, do you think that one light would look good enough to key the actor sitting by the window? I really want it to look as dramatic as possible so I was thinking of only using one light. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Also the room is not as big as I drew. Its a smaller room so I cannot bring in anything big. Sorry for my english also. I am foreign.

 

sd1wtj.jpg


Edited by Jae Solina, 09 December 2015 - 03:15 PM.

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#2 Mihnea Snooker

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 05:49 PM

Where is gonna be the camera? What focal lenght? Sunrise, sunset, night? 

2k led?(is there any 2k led on the market???) or 200w led that looks like a 2k tunsten? Because a a 2k could be enough for a fill, bounced of...whatever, but cant be enough for a key light.


Edited by Mihnea Snooker, 09 December 2015 - 05:51 PM.

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#3 Jae Solina

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 03:44 AM

Where is gonna be the camera? What focal lenght? Sunrise, sunset, night? 

2k led?(is there any 2k led on the market???) or 200w led that looks like a 2k tunsten? Because a a 2k could be enough for a fill, bounced of...whatever, but cant be enough for a key light.

 

Hello. It's going to be a night scene. I have 35mm and 50mm for the lens. Ursa mini 4K for the camera. I apologize i meant 2k equivalent LED. here is the updated diagram. I am also planning on using a fog machine to get some light shaft from the window if possible. How would you key this scene from the inside of the room?

 

24gpmxv.jpg


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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 12:15 PM

Do you want the scene to look like it takes place in a room only lit by moonlight or a streetlamp light coming through the window?


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#5 Jae Solina

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 04:19 AM

Hellow Mr. Mullen thank you for the reply. I am planning to make it seem like my actors are being lit by the moon punching through the window. I was planning on only using one light but I might have to supplement it since its only 2k equivalent. Thank you again.


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#6 Jay Young

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 05:51 AM

Will we see the window?  Is the shot locked off, or does the camera move for those two shots you have listed above?

If we don't see the window ever in frame, then you could use that led but it wouldn't necessaraly have to be outside the window, especially for the second shot facing the door.


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#7 Jae Solina

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 02:06 PM

I would love to be able to show the window to show off like a shaft of light coming down. I will have movements but just slider in and out.


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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 06:32 PM

Yes, if the only source of light in the room is a window then it is good to see the window in the shot. Why not light it with just the 2K LED outside the window?
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#9 Jae Solina

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 12:56 PM

Yes, if the only source of light in the room is a window then it is good to see the window in the shot. Why not light it with just the 2K LED outside the window?

I will try. Hopefully its plenty enough light. Thank you all.


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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 01:54 PM

I would have a second light though, maybe a small LED to bounce off of the ceiling or floor or something in the wide shot if you need more ambient fill.  Though if you haze the room, often that acts as fill.


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#11 David Landau

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 02:08 PM

While one light through the window will work, you need to consider what you want lit - the subject's face, the wall behind the subject, both? A daylight balanced "2k" LED hard light will can be positioned to only side light the actors face or light the actor's face and throw a nice elongated shadow across the wall - which looks even nicer if there are binds or another pattern that can be seen on the wall.

 

Remember that the human eye can see much more than any dgital camera sensor. If you want the image to look "natural' you should add some small amount of ambiant fill light so that the person isn't just in limbo. Perhaps a bounce into the ceiling. You could use a small LED light for that. Also, I would recommend the idea of having some kind of light coming trough the door. No one walks down dark hallways, they can't see. So when the second actor "enters", there would be some natural bounced warm light that would filter into the room. This will allow you to add some color contrast to the person sitting and a nice soft backlight to the person standing in front of the doorway.  The human eye can see very well in the dark, so don't think you need it to be visually dark to be perceived as night. Contrast and dark shadows is what sells "night" to the viewer more than under-exposing, as well as blue light as moonlight really is blue compared to indoor tungsten light.


Edited by David Landau, 12 December 2015 - 02:11 PM.

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#12 Jae Solina

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 02:15 PM

I would have a second light though, maybe a small LED to bounce off of the ceiling or floor or something in the wide shot if you need more ambient fill.  Though if you haze the room, often that acts as fill.

Noted! :) Thank you.


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#13 Jae Solina

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 02:18 PM

While one light through the window will work, you need to consider what you want lit - the subject's face, the wall behind the subject, both? A daylight balanced "2k" LED hard light will can be positioned to only side light the actors face or light the actor's face and throw a nice elongated shadow across the wall - which looks even nicer if there are binds or another pattern that can be seen on the wall.

 

Remember that the human eye can see much more than any dgital camera sensor. If you want the image to look "natural' you should add some small amount of ambiant fill light so that the person isn't just in limbo. Perhaps a bounce into the ceiling. You could use a small LED light for that. Also, I would recommend the idea of having some kind of light coming trough the door. No one walks down dark hallways, they can't see. So when the second actor "enters", there would be some natural bounced warm light that would filter into the room. This will allow you to add some color contrast to the person sitting and a nice soft backlight to the person standing in front of the doorway.  The human eye can see very well in the dark, so don't think you need it to be visually dark to be perceived as night. Contrast and dark shadows is what sells "night" to the viewer more than under-exposing, as well as blue light as moonlight really is blue compared to indoor tungsten light.

Great point. I am still debating whether to back light the guy standing by the door. Directly behind him is a garage and I want to keep the door open during the conversation. I might also try your idea of having blinds installed in the window to give that pattern onto the actor and wall.


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#14 Joshua Davies

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 07:30 AM

I would have a second light though, maybe a small LED to bounce off of the ceiling or floor or something in the wide shot if you need more ambient fill.  Though if you haze the room, often that acts as fill.

How does the haze act as fill?


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#15 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 01:49 PM

Haze or smoke used in film is typically white and picks up any ambient light in the room and reflects it. This always lifts the shadows so they are no longer black but dark grey. If you have any shadows in your frame that have a bit of detail in them (like a dark table in the foreground), oftentimes that detail will get lifted with the black level and become more visible to the eye. This is the same principle that makes Low Con/Fog/Mist type filters work, although in the case of a filter the shadows in the image get lifted globally rather than in three dimensional space. As a result, real smoke and haze usually looks more organic than a filter.
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#16 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 02:06 PM

Haze is very complex in what it can do to an image depending on the amount and the relations between the light, the subject, and the camera (and the focal length + distance to subject.)  It can milk the black level sometimes, which gives the impression of lowered contrast (but no increase in shadow detail), but the particles floating in the air can actually bounce some light back onto the subject, lifting shadow information.  All depends on the angle of the light, how much of the beam is in front versus behind the subject, etc.


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#17 Joshua Davies

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 04:35 PM

Haze or smoke used in film is typically white and picks up any ambient light in the room and reflects it. This always lifts the shadows so they are no longer black but dark grey. If you have any shadows in your frame that have a bit of detail in them (like a dark table in the foreground), oftentimes that detail will get lifted with the black level and become more visible to the eye. This is the same principle that makes Low Con/Fog/Mist type filters work, although in the case of a filter the shadows in the image get lifted globally rather than in three dimensional space. As a result, real smoke and haze usually looks more organic than a filter.

 

 

Haze is very complex in what it can do to an image depending on the amount and the relations between the light, the subject, and the camera (and the focal length + distance to subject.)  It can milk the black level sometimes, which gives the impression of lowered contrast (but no increase in shadow detail), but the particles floating in the air can actually bounce some light back onto the subject, lifting shadow information.  All depends on the angle of the light, how much of the beam is in front versus behind the subject, etc.

Thank you very much. Very helpful answers.


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