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Brute Lights? Dino lights?

Big Lights Brute Lights Dino Lights

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#1 Joshua Hesami

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 01:51 PM

I'm trying to understand more about lighting fixtures with multiple lamps arrayed between 9 to 24 total lamps. I've seen these called brute lights, dino lights, I've heard theater guys call them blinders.

 

How do they fit in? If you need a big light, I would think to use a few big Arrimax lights. Are they more economical? Are the lamps exclusively incandescent with these fixtures? Do any of you still use them frequently? If so, then what for?

 

How do fixtures with lamps in an Array compare to fixtures with a single lamp? Is the purpose to replicate a larger source of light?

And lastly, what is the most commonly accepted term for these fixtures?

 

(Sorry for posing so many questions at once)


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#2 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 02:39 PM

They're much cheaper to rent than HMIs; and yes, they're tungsten. I think sometimes you can get them with Dichrotic bulbs-- though not in a PAR64 (i think it's a PAR36? but been a bit).

 

They're great. They have a much wider spread than most HMIs, as they are physically larger sources-- though often I'd say you'd use them at night if you're on a location.

 

They're slimmer than an HMI is.

 

people tend to call them brutes.

 

Last time I used it was for a short filmed on "mars" with 1 Maxi Brute-- all mediums and 1 5K into a 12x12 we lit out ext walking shot. The 9-lite maxi Brute was maybe 300' or so away

 

12370934_10103698441315833_2149877554150591877_o.jpg

 

 

it's the backlight in this case-- so yes still useful.

 

 


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#3 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 03:25 PM

Don't see 'em nearly so much outside the USA, I find.


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#4 Joshua Hesami

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 04:19 PM

Thanks guys. Yeah, simply searching for information on brute lights yields very mixed results and there is very little conversation or instruction to be found about their use.

 

That's a great look Adrian. 

 

No one in my circle tends to use them but, occasionally, I'll see a look in a film that I like (usually similar to Adrian's frame) and I later find out they used brute fixtures for the set. I would have just thought to fire two M18s straight on or bounce an M40 off a 4x6 card but I prefer the results of the Brute fixture.

I checked the local rental houses and I don't think anyone carries them around here. ...Dallas.


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#5 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 04:27 PM

Well the shadows off of a brute would be closer together -v- multiple HMIs, and harder -v- throwing them all into a bounce, you know? So it's often about having a large-ish singular-like source unit.

 

The main drawbacks are physical size and weight of them, need to a lot of bulb, and power. HMI is substantially more energy efficient than tungsten-- i probably possible could've gotten away with a 6K PAR HMI in this particular case, -v- a 9K tungsten fixture. However, the 6K PAR costs a lot more to rent, and i felt the money could be better used elsewhere.


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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 04:30 PM

And here's roughly how it looks without the smoke and without the look tweak on the dragon (i think this was an iphone photo?) Don't mind the hat. 12363110_10103689849039823_481883276141330338_o.jpg 12370766_10103689849109683_6068997249409838271_o.jpg


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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 05:04 PM

The U.K. is home to the Wendy Light:

http://davidwatkin.c...he-wendy-light/

 

The Wendy Light uses the smaller PAR 36 globes instead of PAR 64.

 

ARRI Rental carries these multi-bank PAR's:

http://www.arrirenta...ads/par-lights/

Full-Wendylight PAR 36 192x650 W

Quarter-Wendylight PAR 36 48x650 W
Dinolight PAR 64 24x1 kW
Dinolight PAR 64 12x1 kW
Maxi Brute PAR 64 9x1 kW
Maxi Brute PAR 64 6x1 kW
Toplight 6x1 kW
Ruby 7 PAR 64 7x1 kW
Dakota PAR 64 5x1 kW
Lightbar PAR 64 6x1 kW
Rocket PAR 64 1 kW
Rocket PAR 56 300/500 W
Mini Brute PAR 36 8x650 W
Mini Brute PAR 36 6x650 W
Mini Brute PAR 36 4x650 W
Mini Brute PAR 36 2x650 W
Bottom Light PAR 36 6x650 W
 
Another similar fixture is the Jumbo Light, which is what Storaro like to use.  These use ACL (Air Craft Landing) PAR globes and are DC-powered, or they can be built with regular PAR 64 globes:
 
 
You can see the multiple-shadow effect of using a direct Jumbo light here in this frame from "Little Buddha" (if the unit had been farther away, the fringed shadow effect would be more subtle):
littlebuddha1.jpg
 
This day exterior in "Tucker" used Jumbos for a late afternoon effect. You can see the multiple shadows in the insert, but in the backlit angle, you can't tell at all that a multi-bank light was used.
 
tucker10.jpg
 
tucker11.jpg
 
tucker12.jpg

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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 05:25 PM

I used a 24-light Maxi outside the windows on the left to create a late afternoon effect in this gym:

 

af38.jpg


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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 05:53 PM

It's not home to very many Wendy lights!


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#10 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 06:01 PM

I used a 24-light Maxi outside the windows on the left to create a late afternoon effect in this gym:

 

af38.jpg

 

David, how far back was the light from the window?...


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#11 Johanan Pandone

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 06:06 PM

I used a 24-light Maxi outside the windows on the left to create a late afternoon effect in this gym:

 

 

This is a really nice effect! Is the tungsten source  gelled at all?  Are the windows gelled? Is there also HMI lighting coming through the right window?  

 

I would just like to know the two approximate color temperatures that are being mixed here and how, it looks like they're a bit closer together than 3200/5600


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#12 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 06:56 PM

It was tungsten on the left and HMI on the right or Kinos (Daylight) for fill.

 

When the tungsten is mixed into a big daytime interior, the orange tends to get diluted plus its a bit overexposed, which make the color less noticeable.

 

The lights were on a condor or scissor lift, maybe about 15' from the window, don't recall.


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#13 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 08:55 PM

A nice feature of the Brutes, is that you can simply reduce the number of bulbs to control exposure, saves having to deal with nets, scrims or colour shift from dimming.
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#14 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 09:11 PM

The LED mini-maxi!

 

A_multi-point_toplight_helps_promote_spe


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#15 Joshua Hesami

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 09:33 PM

Wow. You guys are awesome. If anyone had trouble before wrapping their mind around brute fixtures, you guys about covered here.
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#16 Joshua Hesami

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 09:48 PM

David, along with everyone else, I love the look of that gym.
I'm just curious, were you originally aiming to see shafts of light in your shot coming from the windows? Would you have been able to get some pretty clear light shafts coming off the frames of the windows using the brutes?

The reason I ask is because I recently fired an HMI through a much smaller window in a much smaller studio set and I was really hoping to get nice even shaft of light and it became more of a general glow once I fired up haze. I'm sorry, I'll post a frame when I get back to the office.
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#17 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 10:24 PM

If I had used spot globes and more haze I would have gotten more of a shaft but the main problem is that the angle between the window and the stage is sort of 3/4 frontal whereas to see a beam better, I would have needed more of a backlit angle. Also a dirty window and too much competing ambient daylight can make the beam less dramatic.
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#18 niulinfeng

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 11:03 PM

I used a 24-light Maxi outside the windows on the left to create a late afternoon effect in this gym:

 

af38.jpg

 

how far did u put it outside of the gym?


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#19 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 11:06 PM

It was outside that second window, I don't know how far exactly, being inside all day, maybe 15', maybe 20'?
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#20 Miguel Angel

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 11:00 AM

If you take a look at Penny Dreadful Season 2, most of the big night exteriors in fields are done with either 1/4 Wendy or 1/2 Wendy on a condor and with thick diffusion in front of the lights.

Maxis are also used a lot for the interior days.

In "La Mula", directed by Michael Radford, we used 4 full wendys to light a big early morning exterior, some of them wrapped with diffusion and some without if my memory is not acting weird.

Have a good day!
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