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Double 8 film perforator

16mm film perforator puncher perforating tool

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#1 Jacek Zagaja

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 02:26 AM

California Knife & Blade, Inc. can make perforating blade for $95 each. Anyone interested in group buy? Minimum order 10 pcs.
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#2 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:29 AM

Jacek,

 

Could you flesh out your intentions or ideas? Perforating film stock accurately is not trivial.  


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#3 Jacek Zagaja

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:32 AM

Simply I want use my Beaulieu MAR8 and don't think its mechanism to be very precise. Why not try build one?
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#4 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 10:31 AM

I am still not clear as to your intention. What mechanism are you referring too? The pull-down claw? Build what? A perforater? How is a perforater related to your mechanism? 


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#5 Zac Fettig

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 10:52 AM

Have you tried running a load of Fomapan through it?

http://www.bhphotovi...x_standard.html

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. And I would love to be able to run vision3 500T through my Bolex C8. But cutting accurate holes is a tricky proposition for only a few feet. I don't even know what to use for a blade holder or film guide (that wouldn't cost $$$).


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#6 Simon Wyss

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 11:52 AM

The bigger film manufacturers, Eastman-Kodak, Agfa-Gevaert, Fuji Photo Films, used to use continuous perforators for the not so critical applications. Kodak had the so-called T-perforators. There was so much small-gauge film to be given holes into that Tuttle and Bornemann put up a fast device in the late 1930s but that didn’t have blades like those by California Knife and Blade. Maybe towards the end and that was in the late 1980s. Polyester did the rest.

 

A positive blade alone won’t do the job, it takes two tool parts, a die and a punch. The fit usually is ± 0,002 mm.


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#7 Geoff Howell

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 12:06 PM

there's a guy in the Ukraine perforating his own super8 using what seems to be a sewing machine:

https://www.youtube....h?v=nl28o_O7PCc

 
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#8 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 12:09 PM

If a "home" based perforater is your goal then you have an insurmountable task ahead of you.

 

The critical tolerances that Simon has alluded to are facts. And why re-invent the wheel? There is a gentleman on the Filmshooting forum with an active thread detailing re-manufactured R8mm V3 50D currently being undertaken by Wittner in Germany. He has apparently committed his unperforated Kodak V3 50D film stock to R8 and 2-perf 16mm. He may consider others dependent on demand.  I cannot post the thread link from work. 


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#9 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 12:11 PM

Then there is the homemade 9.5mm perforater, i.e.  :)


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#10 Jacek Zagaja

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 12:37 PM

Have you tried running a load of Fomapan through it?


Yes and it works but 16mm film is much cheaper. Also dont like acetate film because it brakes however easy to glue. Also tried caffenol as developer and peroxide as bleach.

So cutting blades is not good idea? I meant pull down mechanism in Beaulieu shouldn't be precise I think.
I'm open for ideas. Can support group with 3D printed parts or precision machining.
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#11 Zac Fettig

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 04:12 PM

Acetate film breaking is a good thing. It breaks before the camera does. Polyester film can destroy a camera mechanism.

 

I'd go with a punch and die approach, instead of a knife. I kind of like the sewing machine idea, but what happens when the motor sparks in the dark room?

 

And I wouldn't be too sure about the tolerances on a Beaulieu. There's a reason why they say "They don't make them like that anymore!" I mean, it's probably not tight compared to an Arri or Aaton... but it certainly is tighter than most anything you'll see these days.

 

In general, the tolerances on perf dimensions are supposed to be +/- 0.01mm [0.0004"]. On a piece of bendy plastic, that needs to be cut in complete darkness.


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#12 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 04:29 PM

Good overview, Zak. Poly will wreck the camera transport before it even comes close to "snapping" clean like acetate.
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#13 Jacek Zagaja

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 05:33 PM

Shouldn't be expensive with those familiar with Arduino.
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#14 Antonio Bunt

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Posted 01 April 2016 - 08:42 PM

Yes and it works but 16mm film is much cheaper. Also dont like acetate film because it brakes however easy to glue. Also tried caffenol as developer and peroxide as bleach.
So cutting blades is not good idea? I meant pull down mechanism in Beaulieu shouldn't be precise I think.
I'm open for ideas. Can support group with 3D printed parts or precision machining.


Wow!!! Peroxide as bleach!!!??? How does that work???? I am terrified to use sulfuric acid and potassium diachromate for the bleach I normally use!!!!
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#15 Jacek Zagaja

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 12:58 AM

700ml acetic acid (10%) and 300ml Peroxide (30%). Works great but may be sometimes unstable. More tests needed. For the coffee always use Robusta green beans (cheap, stable), use vitamine C pure not from pills and washing soda as buffer.
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#16 Jacek Zagaja

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 01:06 AM

Proof - ipad as light table. Very old ASA 400 film.

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#17 Antonio Bunt

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 10:02 PM

It looks great, Jacek! Thanks for sharing the tip!
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