Jump to content




Photo

Dialogue replacement


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Daniel Meier

Daniel Meier
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 69 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Leipzig, Germany

Posted 09 March 2016 - 03:50 PM

Hey folks,

just been wondering how much ADR is being used these days in movies.

Let's take for example a conventional Hollywood drama. How much of the dialogue is actual recording on set and how much is ADR (percentage)?

Any idea, I'm just curious?


  • 0




#2 Jeff L'Heureux

Jeff L'Heureux
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 90 posts
  • Director
  • Vancouver, Canada

Posted 09 March 2016 - 04:57 PM

A lot more than people think.  Everyone notices bad ADR or looping that isn't properly sync'd, but the great ADR slips by unnoticed.  Basically, if it's set in a really quiet studio setting, it's likely they use the original audio, but you'd be surprised just how much is ADR'd.

 

Take this scene from Thor: The Dark World.  Specifically the exchange before Loki transforms for the first time around 14 seconds in.  The behind the scenes footage utilizes the actual sound recorded on the set, which sounds good, but you can hear all of the squeeks and sounds of their elaborate wardrobe and footsteps: https://www.youtube....h?v=FQXduY16Zpo

 

Then, if you look at the same scene in the finished movie, suddenly their dialogue is flawless, clean, and ever so slightly different in delivery.  That's great ADR that the audience would never notice. https://www.youtube....h?v=lpy22Yosp04

 

Some directors though opt keep the original audio, despite these imperfections, to keep the performance completely intact.


  • 0

#3 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11221 posts
  • Other

Posted 09 March 2016 - 07:04 PM

It's often a lot more detectable with headphones on.


  • 0

#4 Richard Boddington

Richard Boddington
  • Sustaining Members
  • 5189 posts
  • Director

Posted 10 March 2016 - 12:37 PM

I despise ADR, it NEVER sounds right.  I will have an actor re-do a take if any extra sound sneaks in.  On the first Against The Wild it was that damn freight train and its horn that could be heard for 50 miles.  On the second Against The Wild it was planes flying overhead non-stop like bees.

 

There are a couple of ADR lines in my current film, and I cringe every time they go by, to me they stand out.  Probably to a casual viewer they never notice.  If anyone on set suggests that I just ADR the line later, I quickly inform them that I only use ADR in an emergency.

 

And then I hear about movies that are 90% ADR because the sound designers want, "studio quality" audio tracks to work with.  Yeesh.

 

R,


  • 0

#5 Satsuki Murashige

Satsuki Murashige
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3081 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 10 March 2016 - 02:12 PM

It's amazing what a talented post sound mixer can save with the right tools though. One mixer I know does an incredible job saving production tracks. Says he uses 'cedar' plug-ins for Protools. No idea what those are but the results certainly speak for themselves.
  • 0

#6 Tyler Purcell

Tyler Purcell
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2350 posts
  • Other
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 March 2016 - 06:16 PM

I've done a lot of work in the sound industry and you'd be surprised how much is set audio these days. People are getting lazier and lazier, the days of looping everything are long gone. Most movies use two mic's per person, lav and shotgun. They also are very cautious about set noise, making the dialog tracks pretty clean. Funny enough, stuff that seems like looping/ADR is a lot of times audio from different takes. This is a very common trick, used to cover up issues in delivery and even sounds on set. That mixed with a lot of modern cleanup methods, have helped set recordists, editors and mixers, create better and better on-set soundtracks. Sure, for big action films ADR is common place, but for the normal movie, it's rare.
  • 0

#7 Satsuki Murashige

Satsuki Murashige
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3081 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 10 March 2016 - 06:42 PM

Oh, I don't know about that. Sure seems like production mixers are getting thrown under the bus on set with great frequency these days. Camera rehearsals are for the sound dept too. Instead, the poor boom op or utility is still wiring the actors up and the AD is calling the roll. If you can't tell, I used to have a sound mixer for a roomate. :)
  • 0

#8 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11221 posts
  • Other

Posted 10 March 2016 - 09:10 PM

I thought using audio from other takes was cheating. At least, that's probably what it is when I do it.

P
  • 0

#9 Tyler Purcell

Tyler Purcell
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2350 posts
  • Other
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 March 2016 - 09:43 PM

Oh, I don't know about that. Sure seems like production mixers are getting thrown under the bus on set with great frequency these days. Camera rehearsals are for the sound dept too. Instead, the poor boom op or utility is still wiring the actors up and the AD is calling the roll. If you can't tell, I used to have a sound mixer for a roomate. :)


You could say the same thing about cinematography and art direction as well.

"We don't have the time to fix that, lets fix it in post"

It's a lot harder to fix audio in post then picture. Audio doesn't have the dimension of picture, you can't separate frequencies and make it recognizable to the human ear. So it's extremely limited compared with picture. ARD or Automated Dialog Replacement, use to be a very main stream thing to do. It was almost required before we had the wireless technology we have today, where mic's can literally be placed on talent. Where the sets are quieter then they've ever been, due to silent cameras and a lot of careful modern techniques to reduce foot steps, camera dolly noise, etc. Sure, there are extreme cases where dialog is just unusable and ADR is required, but those happen less and less today. The set performance is always better anyway, it's rare an actor has the same passion about his role in the cold, dark, VO booth then they did on set, in costume with cameras rolling.
  • 0

#10 Macks Fiiod

Macks Fiiod
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 432 posts
  • Director
  • OG from DC, Now in NJ

Posted 20 March 2016 - 02:43 AM

 

80-90% sounds about right. ADR is the way to go if you know how to do it, lav mics/boom mics from a distance don't catch the right dynamics for me. I use an MKH-416 and it's a beautiful Swiss army knife of a mic but when you have it like 3-4 feet away, it's gonna come off weak like any other mic from that distance.

 

For the longest time I wondered what microphone set-up major motion pictures were doing to get their sound so crisp. Not understanding ADR will hold you back for a while if you plan on running your own productions, don't let that happen.


  • 0


Glidecam

Abel Cine

Visual Products

Ritter Battery

Pro 8mm

Technodolly

Tai Audio

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Zylight

CineTape

CineLab

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

Pro 8mm

Glidecam

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

Abel Cine

CineTape

Zylight

CineLab

Tai Audio

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

Ritter Battery

Paralinx LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Visual Products