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using estar based film stock

estar film stock

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#1 Christian Schonberger

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 06:29 AM

Hello group,

 

Just a quick(-ish) question: I am planning on doing some serious test footage with my humble S 16mm converted K-3 (still didn't arrive yet - almost!). Especially regarding camera reliability, accuracy of the view finder, focus and how much off the frame rate actually is (I'll simply film an accurate clock with a 'jumping' second hand and count the actual frames - just a few seconds should be fine). The only way is using reversal film stock, closely observed. Road block: the only easily available reversal film stock (which I can get developed at very reasonable prices) is the Wittner/Agfa 200D - which has an estar base. I'm a little reluctant regarding jamming and losing loops. It doesn't break and might ruin the camera (besides not telling me how acetate stock would behave - besides having a different drag which might affect the actual frame rate together with image stability and eventual sources of scratching/rubbing). I have some E 100D (E-6), but this is way too precious for camera tests (for me). Black and white acetate stock perhaps? Should be a lab process which is easily available. Home processing is still out of the question.

 

Any input and experience shared highly appreciated!

 

Cheers,

Christian

 

 


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#2 Chris Burke

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 06:48 AM

get a 100 foot roll of 7266


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#3 Simon Wyss

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 07:09 AM

Different friction coefficient shouldn’t become a problem, only the short part between loops underlies pressure and the emulsion side won’t vary much, anyway. Perforations are equally precise with fresh acetate and polyester base. While you are right that Estar base hardly breaks in a jam the fault is always with the human. Proper loop sizes and correctly seated film guides, the camera doesn’t know.

 

Soviet amateur cameras, Krasnogorsk and Alpha, have a little unfirm film guides.

 

For economy you best use black-white positive film, the cheapest stock of all. It is available in long rolls up to 2000 feet, perforated both edges and one edge, acetate base or PETP base, Orwo PF 2 for example. Still, it yields a fine-grain image by which you can easily detect focus issues. I’d start with that.


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#4 Christian Schonberger

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 07:20 AM

get a 100 foot roll of 7266

Thanks.

That would be Kodak Tri X black and white reversal (can be processed with R-19, so that's covered). Already checked: Still expensive here in Europe (over 70 USD one spool plus shipping - much cheaper in the US, but I would have to pay customs and higher shipping charges).  I thought about the Orwo UN 54 which is considerably more affordable (can get it processed as reversal = 125 ASA - and scanned at very reasonable prices, that's covered too). I can get fresh Orwo film stock from Andec, Germany, but they don't say if its 1R or 2R. Need to check on Monday. The only uploaded footage of exactly this film stock processed as reversal was double perf... (looks great BTW!). I would need 1R (Super 16mm). I might consider buying it for test footage even if it's double perf (2R). What image would be inside the right hand sprocket holes is guesswork.....  Talk about being on a "no budget"  :-/ :-)

 

Thanks!

Christian


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#5 Christian Schonberger

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 07:22 AM

Different friction coefficient shouldn’t become a problem, only the short part between loops underlies pressure and the emulsion side won’t vary much, anyway. Perforations are equally precise with fresh acetate and polyester base. While you are right that Estar base hardly breaks in a jam the fault is always with the human. Proper loop sizes and correctly seated film guides, the camera doesn’t know.

 

Soviet amateur cameras, Krasnogorsk and Alpha, have a little unfirm film guides.

 

For economy you best use black-white positive film, the cheapest stock of all. It is available in long rolls up to 2000 feet, perforated both edges and one edge, acetate base or PETP base, Orwo PF 2 for example. Still, it yields a fine-grain image by which you can easily detect focus issues. I’d start with that.

Thanks a lot!

I'm heading into the right direction :-)

 

Cheers and Happy Easter!

Christian


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#6 Doug Palmer

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 04:59 PM

Regarding the Wittnerchrome 200D, I have found it runs exceptionally smoothly through Bolex cameras. And very steady image too. Haven't tried it in a K3 though.


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#7 aapo lettinen

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 07:04 PM

You can buy some orwo or kodak bw film and even develop it by yourself if it is just for tests. You don't even need developing tank or hazardous chemicals for negative tests, just make a batch of coffenol and thiosulfate fixer and develop it in a wash basin for example. You can try for example frame24 for kodak film and wittner for orwo

Edited by aapo lettinen, 27 March 2016 - 07:05 PM.

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#8 Christian Schonberger

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 02:48 AM

Doug and aapo. thanks for the information!

 

C.


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