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Broadcast standards for BBC?

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#1 Jimmy Jib

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 10:52 AM

Anyone know what the broadcast requirements are for BBC? Also wondering about Discovery, MTV and ESPN
I know the Panasonic P2 AG-HPX370 ( 10-bit, 4:2:2  AVC-Intra 100 1920 x 1080 ) was certified Gold Standard by Discovery when it first came out... but things have changed a little since then.

 


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#2 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 11:31 AM

Most providers require 10 bit 4:2:2 1920x1080. What codec you use is up to them. Most everyone takes 50Mbps MPEG 2's, as a lot of facilities finish to that format. However, I've delivered Pro Res files to a bunch of networks without a problem.
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#3 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 08:55 PM

Hi Jimmy

 

As Tyler says above re spec,s.. but what has changed alot is that 2/3 inch chip camera,s have gone out of style for alot of Discovery/natgeo etc doc,s.  in my experience anyway ..nearly all has gone over to s35mm single sensor camera,s.. C300 used to be king when it was the only 50 Mbps s35mm "cheap" camera around... now I would think its the Sony Fs7.. with F5/55.. C300 (I &II).. BM..Amira.. and RED.. 

 

I managed to sell my HDX900 (cheaply),which was a very popular camera for Dis/Natgeo etc..but could hardly give the lenses away !

 

If you want to get into that market I would suggest the Fs7 is best bang for the buck.. but decent lenses will cost ..new camera,s are coming out all the time though..


Edited by Robin R Probyn, 28 March 2016 - 08:59 PM.

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#4 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 02:12 AM

You can find the requirements for the BBC and other EBU broadcasters here. These requirements are laid out in tiers, depending on  the nature of the production.

 

https://tech.ebu.ch/...r/r118.pdfteirs


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#5 Jimmy Jib

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 09:02 AM

Got this when I tried to open that link

288v891.jpg


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#6 Jimmy Jib

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 09:22 AM

 

If you want to get into that market I would suggest the Fs7 is best bang for the buck.. but decent lenses will cost ..new camera,s are coming out all the time though..

FS7 is awesome... but I chose to go with the F3. At $5000 AU it's less than half the cost of a FS7, although you do need to add the external recorder to get that nice 10 bit 422 ProRes / DNxHD quality.


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#7 Mark Dunn

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 11:02 AM

Got this when I tried to open that link

288v891.jpg

Just delete 'tiers' off the end of the URL.

 

https://tech.ebu.ch/...r/r118.pdf


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#8 Jimmy Jib

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 12:39 PM

Did that. Got a "Page Not Found" warning ( 404 ). Tried two different browsers.


Edited by Jimmy Jib, 29 March 2016 - 12:40 PM.

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#9 Phil Connolly

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 01:18 PM

All Uk main broadcasters agree to the spec so you could use the Channel 4 Spec:

 

https://dpp-assets.s...StandardsC4.pdf

 

And it will be very similar in terms of technical spec. The only real difference is C4 has hard parted programmes and the BBC don't. Also C4 have different end credit specs for commissioned shows. 

 

50mbs as a shooting format as a practical minimum is generally fine. But when your actually doing a Broadcast QC its quite difficult to guess if it was shot at the "correct" bit rate - you can only reject if there's noticeable artifact's. Back the day when I did broadcast QC's (Channel 4 and BBC) we'd get quite a bit 35mbs EX3 footage and if it was shot carefully it would get through. Less excuse for that sort of stuff now as even affordable cameras shoot to a robust codec.

 

Generally the broadcaster wants the footage to look decent and as long as it does they won't be anal about the format. I mostly rejected programmes for title safe errors, title spelling mistakes, wrong audio levels and photosensitive epilepsy issues. That was a much bigger problem then the codec. In the days of SD tons of stuff was shot on the sony- DSR 570 DVCAM camera for broadcast even though it failed the 4:2:2 digi-beta spec - but generally it was considered fine 


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#10 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 01:29 PM

Did that. Got a "Page Not Found" warning ( 404 ). Tried two different browsers.

Try this, it's pasted directly and I've checked it.

 

https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r118.pdf


Edited by Brian Drysdale, 29 March 2016 - 01:29 PM.

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#11 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 06:47 AM

You do know that BBC stands for Broken Biscuit Company.. 


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#12 Jimmy Jib

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 10:48 AM

Try this, it's pasted directly and I've checked it.

 

https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r118.pdf

Yep! That one worked. Thanks Brian! Looks pretty informative


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#13 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 11:07 AM

For those looking, here is the correct link for Super 16mm acquisition standards: 

 

http://dpp-assets.s3...-Supplement.pdf


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#14 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:15 AM

For those looking, here is the correct link for Super 16mm acquisition standards: 

 

http://dpp-assets.s3...-Supplement.pdf

 

That seems to be for SD, rather than HD.


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#15 Mark Dunn

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 10:53 AM

 

That seems to be for SD, rather than HD.

S16 isn't regarded as HD in the UK and has to be submitted as SD.


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#16 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 10:56 AM

S16 isn't regarded as HD in the UK and has to be submitted as SD.

 

Yes, it's regarded as SD. I was pointing out that the document where it only has SD for Super16.


Edited by Brian Drysdale, 04 April 2016 - 11:00 AM.

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#17 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 10:56 AM

ITV airs "Doc Martin" in 1080i and that is shot in Super-16. It is also released in blu-ray in HD.


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#18 Mark Dunn

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 11:05 AM

Perhaps they have a special arrangement but the DPP technical standards say this

2.8 Film for High Definition Acquisition
      Super16 film is not considered to be high definition no matter what processing or transfer systems are used.

 

and for S16 delivery:

All material delivered for transmission must be:
• 702 x 576 pixels in an aspect ratio of 16:9 FHA (Full Height Anamorphic)


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#19 Phil Connolly

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 10:05 AM

ITV airs "Doc Martin" in 1080i and that is shot in Super-16. It is also released in blu-ray in HD.

 

There are always exceptions but Super 16 in the UK wasn't accepted for HD transmissions on commissions. Acquisitions are different you could purchase the rights to "Black Swan" and broadcast in HD - thats fine as your showing "the best available version". But a HD commission limits the shooting formats to try and maintain a level of quality.

 

For example - the first 2 seasons of BBC's merlin were shot on super 16. Mastered in HD but only broadcast in SD in the UK. Even though a HD master existed and later blu - ray was in HD.

 

We had similar issues at C4 where we had HD masters but engineering wouldn't allow them to be broadcast in HD, but SD only and then we would have to upconvert for HD channel. So we'd actually downconvert to SD and then upconvert to HD - which is insane from a quality standpoint. But still "allowed" as the upconverted stuff isn't advertised as HD. So you'd see lots of HD broadcasts - that used upconverted SD - which is fine as long as you don't call them "HD"

 

Fortunately lots of this sillyness is now behind us. Same with broadcasting in 14:9 aspect ratios on UK terrestrial TV. 


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