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Shooting at 23.976


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#1 Gary Robinson

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 11:22 AM

Does anyone have experience shooting at 23.976 so they can keep sync with non-timecoded audio recorders? What audio recorders have you worked with? Because this technique works with video because of the match to telecine speed, are there any complications with a negative cut?
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 11:38 AM

Does anyone have experience shooting at 23.976 so they can keep sync with non-timecoded audio recorders?  What audio recorders have you worked with?  Because this technique works with video because of the match to telecine speed, are there any complications with a negative cut?

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I'm not sure why that is necessary -- you can adjust sound in post to match 24 fps film rather than adjust film to match 29.97 sound.

But there are no negative cut issues with shooting at 23.976 fps. You just may have to make an adjustment to the sound sync later when doing the final mix. Take an answer print from the cut neg to a mix studio and run it interlocked with your sound mix and see if you need to do a speed adjustment to the audio.
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#3 Gary Robinson

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 12:24 PM

Thanks. This question was based on this essay:

http://www.tobincine...com/page19.html



I'm not sure why that is necessary -- you can adjust sound in post to match 24 fps film rather than adjust film to match 29.97 sound.

But there are no negative cut issues with shooting at 23.976 fps. You just may have to make an adjustment to the sound sync later when doing the final mix. Take an answer print from the cut neg to a mix studio and run it interlocked with your sound mix and see if you need to do a speed adjustment to the audio.

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#4 Sam Wells

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 09:59 AM

You should get one of those books recommended on that site.

Clive T isn't "wrong" in that quote but it's misleading out of context. Shooting at 23.97 just 'pulls down' to the speed a telecine transfer would happen at.

There's no such thing as "29.97 sound" - digital recorders don't operate at any kind of frame rate, they operate at their sampling rate, typically 48 kHz or it can be 44.1.

(I think DEVA maybe can operate at a 'pulled down' equivalent rate ?)

ie timecode doesn't effect the speed of the machine, what it can do is give you a trick to pull down the audio speed to match the speed of the 24 > 23.97 pulldown of speed that happens in a Telecine transfer: record a TC rate of 30, then control machine playback with 29.97 NDF TC

-Sam

Edited by SamWells, 04 June 2005 - 09:59 AM.

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#5 oscar jimenez

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 12:35 PM

I have shot stuff with "live audio" for TV. If Im taping this or recording voice on a Hard Disc Drive or Beta SP tape, I'd always go for 30 fps. I ve shot also stuff of people singing with a music playback to then sync in post, at 24fps with no problem.
I guess it shouldn't make that much of a difference.
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#6 Sam Wells

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 01:19 PM

All this only applies to film shot at 24.00 fps and telecined, in which (NTSC/60) case the effective frame rate on the video medium is 23.976 fps

-Sam
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