Jump to content




Photo

Thoughts on Super 8 test footage


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 John Woosley

John Woosley
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Other
  • Kansas City, MO

Posted 02 April 2016 - 08:54 AM

Hi all,

 

I got a Canon Autozoom 814 some time ago and couldn't remember if I ever tested it so shot some film on Echtachrome 100d (had a few boxes left, but not refrigerated). I was really surprised by how well the color looked (this was a home transfer on dslr) but it seemed to be shaking a lot for being shot on a tripod. Is this a problem with the camera's registration? Or simply an occasional issue with super 8? Thanks for thoughts and comments!

 

https://youtu.be/F2J55IDGo48


  • 0




#2 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2182 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 02 April 2016 - 09:13 AM

There was always a suspicion that E100D, having never been intended for Super-8, was unsuitable for the cartridge, either too thick or too sticky to run smoothly. But no, I wouldn't have put up with that in the days of K40.

I'm not speaking from experience. After K40 Super-8 was much too expensive for me.


  • 0

#3 Nicholas Kovats

Nicholas Kovats
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 452 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Shoot film! facebook.com/UltraPan8WidescreenFilm

Posted 02 April 2016 - 11:05 AM

Yes, Josh. The "jitter" or potential registration issue is partially due to the age of the Canon built in the mid to late sixties making it close to 45-50 years old, i.e. http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Canon_Auto_Zoom_814 Idoubt it has ever been serviced. The other factor could very well be the alleged suboptimal transport characteristics of E100D Super 8 cart reversal. 

 

I have never had an issue with running E100D in my Bolex 16mm transport.  I cannot recall having any issues with transporting E100D S8 carts in my Nizo 156XL or Beaulieu 6008 Pro transports. But other Super 8 users have reported as such. 


  • 0

#4 Carl Looper

Carl Looper
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1367 posts
  • Digital Image Technician
  • Melbourne, Australia

Posted 04 April 2016 - 01:06 AM

Could also be the projector. Or how the projector is set up relative to the camera. Even very small vibrations can cause perceptible jitter. You could try sand bagging the projector. And you might need quite a few sand bags. I had to use a lot of sandbags for a 16mm projector once - and Super8 projectors can be a lot worse. In one situation the vibration of the projector went through the table across the floor and up the tripod.

 

The interesting thing is that when watching a film live your brain can adapt to the small vibrations and cancel them out - but a video camera doesn't have such a brain and will burn such into the video. One could argue that your brain should be able to cancel out the jitter transferred to the video - and it can to some extent - it helps if you turn off the lights and watch the film full screen so that one minimise any external frame of reference. Of course, once you are alert to it you just can't stop noticing it.

 

Sandbags then. They do help a lot.

 

C


Edited by Carl Looper, 04 April 2016 - 01:11 AM.

  • 0

#5 andy oliver

andy oliver
  • Sustaining Members
  • 257 posts
  • Other
  • uk

Posted 08 April 2016 - 04:16 PM

Experienced terrible jitter and jamming with 100d, worst camera for jamming was a canon 514xl, other cameras yeilded a flickery image, as previously mentioned, 100d was possibly never intended for super 8. 100d imo was also the worse stock Kodak ever put into a super 8 cartridge, un-sharp and poor colour reproduction unless one is into circus-chrome colours.


  • 0

#6 John Woosley

John Woosley
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Other
  • Kansas City, MO

Posted 14 April 2016 - 08:55 AM

Is their a better reversal stock? The fun of home projection and ease of transferring make it appealing. 


  • 0

#7 Will Montgomery

Will Montgomery
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1923 posts
  • Producer
  • Dallas, TX

Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:16 AM

Good news is you won't have to worry about Ektachrome any more...or bad news I guess. I loved it in 16mm.


  • 0

#8 John Woosley

John Woosley
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Other
  • Kansas City, MO

Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:46 AM

True I forgot about that since I still have some I haven't used.... Well is the new reversal stock supposed to be any better?


  • 0

#9 Maik Lobborn

Maik Lobborn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts
  • Electrician

Posted 14 April 2016 - 12:28 PM

Whats available can be seen here:

 

http://www.colorreversalfilm.com/

 

Of course there is more grain as this is a 200 ASA stock. But I like this emulsion very much. Very nice, natural colors, nice cinematographic feel, very very tolerant concerning exposure, very good in low light and mixed light situations. And: no jitter! Runs superbely well through film cameras and projectors as is has a modern polyester base (not the old triacetate, which tends to become dry and brittle and deteriorates rather quickly if not stored under ideal climatic conditions. The archival quality of modern polyester base is second to none. This will survive you and even your kids)


  • 0

#10 Will Montgomery

Will Montgomery
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1923 posts
  • Producer
  • Dallas, TX

Posted 14 April 2016 - 06:02 PM

Just wish Velvia was still available. We need a nice slow reversal for those bright, summer days when Super 8 is at its best. Kodachrome COME BACK!!!

 

Looking forward to try Ferrania 64D. Guessing a year or so away still.


  • 0

#11 Doug Palmer

Doug Palmer
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 198 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 15 April 2016 - 04:03 AM

Just wish Velvia was still available. We need a nice slow reversal for those bright, summer days when Super 8 is at its best. Kodachrome COME BACK!!!

 

Looking forward to try Ferrania 64D. Guessing a year or so away still.

Did you say 64D ?  Surely it is planned to be 100D ?   However, a slower speed would be great to keep the grain fine.  It would be remarkable (and wonderful)  if Ferrania's new film is equal in resolution to our beloved Ektachrome 100D.   Most people would be entirely happy with a 50 to 64 speed film.


  • 0

#12 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2182 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 15 April 2016 - 04:32 AM

They're making 100D first.

http://www.filmferrania.it/faq/

 

Or are they?

http://www.filmferra...-8-16-interview


Edited by Mark Dunn, 15 April 2016 - 04:37 AM.

  • 0

#13 andy oliver

andy oliver
  • Sustaining Members
  • 257 posts
  • Other
  • uk

Posted 15 April 2016 - 04:00 PM

Is their a better reversal stock? The fun of home projection and ease of transferring make it appealing. 

 

No decent reversal colour stock available at present, wittner 200d is available but this is very grainy, from the footage I've seen the image looks horrible a far cry from the glory days of Kodachrome. Hopefully we'll have a new colour stock by the end of 2016?


  • 0

#14 Doug Palmer

Doug Palmer
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 198 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 16 April 2016 - 03:37 AM

 

No decent reversal colour stock available at present, wittner 200d is available but this is very grainy, from the footage I've seen the image looks horrible a far cry from the glory days of Kodachrome. Hopefully we'll have a new colour stock by the end of 2016?

Lets hope so.  My fridge is getting emptier. 

I haven't tried the Wittner 200D in super-8 but can imagine the obtrusive grain.  In 16mm it's acceptable for some film-making subjects. And colour etc looks fine to me.

I do hope Ferrania work hard to produce a fine grain reversal stock.  Even a speed of 25 asa would be acceptable.

 

In 16mm some of us work in ultra-16 and wider,  so it would be great if Ferrania could avoid printing their markings in the area for potential image.  I asked them about this but haven't received a reply.  If anyone here is concerned about this,  please do email Ferrania.


  • 0


Zylight

Paralinx LLC

Glidecam

Abel Cine

Pro 8mm

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Visual Products

CineLab

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

Technodolly

Aerial Filmworks

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

Paralinx LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Pro 8mm

Ritter Battery

CineTape

Willys Widgets

Abel Cine

Zylight

Technodolly

Tai Audio

Broadcast Solutions Inc