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Color Lab Super 16 Telecine limited to 4:3/16:9 AR

Super 16 Processing Aspect Ratio 4:3 16:9

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#1 Aaron Hunt

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 01:16 AM

Hey folks,

 

My school likes to go through color lab for film processing/telecines, but it seems as though they are limited only (as evidenced by the telecine form) to 4:3 and 16:9 Aspect Ratios. Shooting on Super 16, I framed for the native AR of 1.66 and would prefer not to crop the top and bottom of my frames -- even if it's still "...the same basic shape" as they put it. Are there any other easy to use/ship to and quality labs that can telecine our rolls at a 1.66? 

 

Thanks in advance! Any help is appreciated. 


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#2 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 02:26 AM

1.66 is a theatical aspect ratio, it isn't a television one.

 

Super 16 was orginaliy intended for blow up to 35mm film. where you can  have a 1;66 aspect ratio (found more in Europe), although in practice 1.85 is more common. I suspect the telecine would need a special gate, since 1.66 isn't used for digital theatical releases.

 

Even so,, either side will need to have black bands in your final transfer, because you're limited to 1080 in the height, so the image width will need to be reduced to allow for the more square shape within the 16:9 frame..


Edited by Brian Drysdale, 13 April 2016 - 02:34 AM.

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#3 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 02:48 AM

Well, the Super 16 frame is 1.67:1 and the HDTV 16:9 frame is 1.75:1, so you aren't really cropping THAT much. It's not like cropping down to 1.85:1 like a theatrical release. Also, the super 16 cameras I've used on a regular basis have 1.75:1 framing on the ground glass as well.

If you do a 1.66:1 full-gate transfer, you will have black bars on the sides.
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#4 Aaron Hunt

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 03:11 AM

I'm worried as several compositions are already intentionally tight for headroom. I'm quite adamant about avoiding the top and bottom crop although it wouldn't be that significant. We shot on an Aaton LTR 54 and I assumed the viewfinder's two frames were for reg/super 16 ARs. Is there a chance the larger frame was actually for a 1.75? I don't mind black bars on a full-gate 1.66 transfer. Do most labs allow this though?

Edited by Aaron Hunt, 13 April 2016 - 03:13 AM.

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#5 Aaron Hunt

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 03:18 AM

1.66 is a theatical aspect ratio, it isn't a television one.
 
Super 16 was orginaliy intended for blow up to 35mm film. where you can  have a 1;66 aspect ratio (found more in Europe), although in practice 1.85 is more common. I suspect the telecine would need a special gate, since 1.66 isn't used for digital theatical releases.
 
Even so,, either side will need to have black bands in your final transfer, because you're limited to 1080 in the height, so the image width will need to be reduced to allow for the more square shape within the 16:9 frame..


Thanks Brian, black bands are no issue. We wanted the 1.66 from the beginning, I just didn't know the telecine for the AR would be such a unique labor. I see Fotokem has the option for a 1.66 transfer, any other labs you know of that are good and convenient?
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#6 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 03:26 AM

Only labs that are involved with theatrical feature films are likely to have a 1,66 transfer, it's pretty specialised. Unfortunately, there are fewer labs around these days,. 


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#7 Freya Black

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 05:21 AM

Only labs that are involved with theatrical feature films are likely to have a 1,66 transfer, it's pretty specialised. Unfortunately, there are fewer labs around these days,. 

 

 

Surely most telecines are capable of zooming out, sometimes so you can even see the sprockets??

Has that been changing more recently?

Obviously you would need to pillarbox it for HD but so what?

 

Freya


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#8 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 06:04 AM

I guess it may depend on the telecine that they are using and the demands of the local market. I assume it's a telecine not a scanner.


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#9 Perry Paolantonio

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 08:11 AM

Only labs that are involved with theatrical feature films are likely to have a 1,66 transfer, it's pretty specialised. Unfortunately, there are fewer labs around these days,. 

 

Any scanner and most telecines can do this. Matting is typically done "soft" not in the gate. I've sat in on plenty of client sessions on a Shadow where we did 1.85 and 1.66 transfers with black letterbox or pillarbox bars, respectively. There's nothing special about this because the actual matte is done by the in-line color correction system, or in hardware on the telecine (but not usually by the gate, except maybe on older systems). 

 

If the goal is to output a 1.66:1 FILE, then you probably want it done on a modern film scanner, not a telecine. Telecines are designed to output a Video signal, and that means that ultimately, the signal coming out the back of the machine has to conform to standard video resolutions and frame rates (and will depend on the options installed on that machine). A file-based film scanner could care less what the resolution is. We can scan you a file that 16 pixels high by 4096 wide if you want. Not that you'd do that, but my point is that it's not a big deal to make a custom file. 

 

The bigger issue might be bringing it into software that's expecting standard resolutions. But it's certainly doable and we do it all the time. 

 

-perry


Edited by Perry Paolantonio, 13 April 2016 - 08:14 AM.

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#10 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 09:04 AM

What Perry said, we typically scan S16mm as 2048 x 1306 for 2K which is the full 1.66 frame plus a little room top and bottom, likewise our Spirit and Cintel Telecine's can zoom out to see the full 1.66 frame in HD 1080p video.


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#11 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 09:19 AM

I've gotten great 2K S16 scans at 1.66 from both Cinelab and Metropolis Post. 


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#12 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 09:21 AM

Perhaps the original poster can phone his lab directly to find out if it's a limitation with their kit or a communication issue..If it's the Colorlab that comes up first on google I'd be surprised if they didn't do it, although I get the impression this lab is in or near Denver.


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#13 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 10:00 AM

Perhaps it's part of a deal that the school has with the lab - low price, but only 4 x 3 or 16;9.


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#14 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 10:43 AM

Perhaps the original poster can phone his lab directly to find out if it's a limitation with their kit or a communication issue..If it's the Colorlab that comes up first on google I'd be surprised if they didn't do it, although I get the impression this lab is in or near Denver.

 

 

 

Colorlab is in Rockland, MD


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