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Beaulieu Super 16 R16


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#1 k3shooter

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 03:47 PM

In case anyone is interested I just got back from the Cine Gear Expo '05 at Warner Bros and Pro 8mm/16mm was displaying their "new" super R16. It had the standard Angineux 17-68mm which apparently requires no modification. The viewfinder had been modified with S16 markings and was nice and bright. The price? $4,000.00! Ouch. That's an Eclair ACL/NPR. No word on whether or not they will convert private R16's and what it would cost. Their telecine footage for super 8 was jaw dropping and they'll let you sit in on the timing session. More at their website. If this is old news, I apologize. It was new to me. Happy shooting.

Edited by k3shooter, 04 June 2005 - 03:49 PM.

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#2 Scot McPhie

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 04:26 PM

This is interesting because Bjorn Anderson has said repeatedly on the R16 forum that it is extremely problematic to do this on the R16 -- perhaps this is why it costs so much for the Pro 8 version

see

http://p205.ezboard....opicID=83.topic

R16 to Super 16 conversion?  Can an R16 be converted to Super 16? Is it just a matter of widening the gate?

Thanks

Scot McPhie
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Bjorn Andersson
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(2/5/03 6:57 am)
Reply  Super 16 I have converted a few R16 to Super 16.
There is lots of problems with this. You will not be able to have the whole frame in viewfinder, the shutter mirror is to small and can not cover the whole S16 filmgate. There has to be some new or modifyed parts made for this. You have to know the R16 camera very very well before anybody start this.
Bjorn Andersson
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Posts: 17
(2/11/03 10:52 am)
Reply  s16 Thanks for that Bjorn - I'll just keep it as a 16mm for the time being :-)

Scot
www.mango-a-gogo.com


ericmartinjarvies
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(6/27/03 7:12 pm)
Reply  i'll give it a go... scot,

i have spent the past day going over everything that would be required for a r16 to rS16 conversion.

for starters, the actual film gate would need to be replaced with a custom machined part. the new part would esentaly be the same as the original, except this one would have a wider track, and obviously a wider gate. a new shutter mirror plate and mirror would also need to be made to fit inside of this new gate. it would utilize the same pully/gear that the original one is attached, which provides the shutter movement.

second, the fogged glass and crosshair glass would need to be replaced with wider pieces. obviously, this glass wil lbe custom made, sort of like you seeing eye glasses, and a new center crosshair would be enscribed, as wel las the normal 16 frame, and the tv safe frame, and the new wide frame(inbetween perf, from edge to edge). the little carraige that holds these pieces of glass would also need to be widened.

the beamsplitter, which sends light to the light sensor, and to the viewfinder, would need to be adjusted forward, or replaced with a new, larger one. i am not certian about this one yet. the existing one might be large enough to accomodate the new frame size if a differant optic was used at the ground glass area. but i am not certain about optics in this regard. none the less, glass/optics will need to be changed so the viewfinder receives the entire image.

now then, the actual mounting turrit will also need to be adjusted. the c-mount will need to be moved to the new center frame to adjust for the s16 new center position. on the rotating turrits. this will be easy. in fact, it might be interesting to create a rotating turrit that can facilitate 3 lenses, so the user merely rotate the selected prime or zoom lens into position.

all said, this is efinatly doable. i am going to have to purchase a mill and lathe and some other tools and bits, as well as aluminim and casting alloys, plastics, rubber, and foam materials to be able to make the parts. i will need to locate a company that makes beamsplitter that are the same size as needed. in fact, i will need ot send the entire assemby to someone familier with optics and have them determine what i will need exactly(i see this as beign the most costly part of the conversion). although machining parts is not cheap, once you have the initial prototypes made, the others come much easier.

its a shame the beaulieu cameras did not use belts. all of these gears inside make for a really noisy camera.

i might end up making a simple, homemade motion picture camera myself, that is rally basic in design, and large in scale. from that point, i may also try to start adding variable functions and adjustments to it using cuting edge, off the shelf items/technologies. over the past 4 months i have taken apart well over 50 cameras, mostly beaulieu and CP. i will also me taking apart an eclair and arri camera this month. i will derive more ideas for a new film camera from these. perhaps i should spring for one of those new a-cam cameras and see hw they desgned thier camera. one thing i beleive they should have done was built a reflex system on-board, as well as a plug and play cmos or ccd video tap. these things are important to most people. the ideal film camera in my opinion would be:

film camera with built in slate marker, video tap, and richter type self collimation device. having these features would greatly reduce the amount of time to film one would have when purchasing such a camera. adding lenses to your collection would not require the camera and lens be sent off to be collimated each time. also, having a plug and play, and easily removable cmos or ccd attachment would allow people to replace their video imaging technology as it advances over the years. so if you currently have a 3 chip 500 line ccd installed, and wanted to replace it with a 800 line one, it should be EASY to do, and not require a complete schemo rewrite. and all parts should be standard, off the shelf items, used for many years, and will continue to be used for may years to follow. to make anything that is propriatary is not being considerate to the future second hand users, or perhaps our chilren or their children in 30-50 years from now. i beleive all items should be created like this, so as trends change and companies go out of business, the products endure and are easily fixed, changed, modified.

22 cents worth.


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#3 Ian Marks

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 06:42 PM

I was chatting with a young guy behind the counter at Pro8mm a few months ago and he mentioned that they were working on a Super 16 mod of the Beaulieu, and I told him I thought that he was mistaken. Knowing the Beaulieu (I had one long ago) I was sure that it just couldn't be modified (if it were possible, surely someone would have done it by now). When I heard about Pro8mm's gate-widened Super 8 cameras, I figured that that was what the guy had been talking about, and that he had used the word "sixteen" by mistake. Anyway, I've since seen the modified R16 mentioned on their website, so maybe they found a way to make it work. They're calling it Super 16, so presumably it adheres to the international standard when it comes to image dimensions.

The R16's nearest competitor is probably the reflex Bolex, but obviously the cameras are very different. The Beaulieu's viewing system uses a moving mirror so it doesn't steal any light from the film, and the shutter is so compact that it allows the use of *any* C-mounted lens, without the need for special adjustment (no "RX" lenses). Nice. On the other hand, the cameras are battery dependent and use - gulp - French electronics that may or may not have aged gracefully. Not so bon, I think.

There's also the cost issue. If Pro8mm could offer the modification at a reasonable cost (it would have to be under $1,000), they could have a nice little business going there. On the other hand, a person would have to be daft to pay four grand for a Super 16 Beaulieu with a so-so zoom and puny 100 foot internal load, when you could buy a bullet-proof CP16R kit with two or three 400 foot mags for $1,500 and have it modified for another $2,500.

Edited by Ian Marks, 04 June 2005 - 06:44 PM.

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#4 Josh Hill

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 08:55 PM

Visual Products converts a CP16R for two grand, so I just saved someone 500 dollars right there. :-)
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#5 Sam Wells

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 10:37 AM

  It had the standard Angineux 17-68mm which apparently requires no modification. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That's some old glass. Even the 17.5 - 70 would be a step up. (Ang. made an adaptor that could turn it in to a 12.5 - 50 which I *think* will cover S16 - don't quote me...)

Super 16, ok, but I dunno this thing sounds kind of retro at the same time.

"Any" c mount lens sounds good on paper but how many will cover S16 ?

-Sam
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 12:05 PM

Well, as a learning tool only, you could shoot Super-16 and make contact prints, then project them at a lab in Super-16 or at home on a regular 16mm projector with the edge missing, or file out a larger gate. So Super-16 doesn't not negate the ability to shoot and make a contact print and look at the results and learn.
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#7 Rik Andino

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 04:13 PM

Visual Products converts a CP16R for two grand, so I just saved someone 500 dollars right there. :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah but you'd want to get a PL mount installed because it makes sense...
And that would probably push the cost to $2,500US.

Still it's better than owning a S16MOS camera that only takes 100' loads.
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#8 PAULSEID

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 02:17 PM

In case anyone is interested I just got back from the Cine Gear Expo '05 at Warner Bros and Pro 8mm/16mm was displaying their "new" super R16.  It had the standard Angineux 17-68mm which apparently requires no modification.  The viewfinder had been modified with S16 markings and was nice and bright.  The price?  $4,000.00!  Ouch.  That's an Eclair ACL/NPR. No word on whether or not they will convert private R16's and what it would cost.  Their telecine footage for super 8 was jaw dropping and they'll let you sit in on the timing session.  More at their website.  If this is old news, I apologize.  It was new to me.  Happy shooting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



That's a fantastic overcharge from PRO 8. I would not deal with them. They are overpriced and arrogant.
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#9 Matt Pacini

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 02:33 PM

Once again, pro8mm is living up to their motto: "we'll bend over backwards for our customers, who will bend over forwards to do business with us"

MP
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