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500t with an 85 filter

film stock 500t 85 filter

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#1 Ben Recinos

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 08:54 PM

Hi everyone,

 

          I'm helping with my friend's project for a cinematography class. We'll be using an arri S.

Unfortunately he got 500t film and we will be shooting in daylight with an 85 filter. I wanted to

ask if anyone here had any suggestions for our shoot, and my friend is concerned about what

the f-stop should be set at with such conditions.

 

Thank you.


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#2 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 09:27 PM

Your friend should rent or borrow a set of ND filters for the shoot. If that's not possible, then try to shoot in the shade.
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 10:32 PM

The Sunny 16 rule in photography says that the exposure in direct frontal sun on a clear day is an f/16 when the ASA is the same number as the shutter speed number under the 1/---.  And since at 24 fps with a 180 degree shutter, you get 1/48th of a second, which can be rounded to 1/50th, it means that the exposure for 50 ASA film is f/16.

 

500T stock with an 85 filter is 320 ASA, so you'd need an 85ND9 combo filter to get down to 40 ASA, in order to shoot between an f/11 and f/16 in direct sunlight.

 

Of course, in backlight you can open up and in the shade as well, but to give yourself any flexibility to go out into full sunlight, you need ND filters to go with your 85, or 85ND combo filters.

 

Or get some 50 ASA film.


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#4 Ari Michael Leeds

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 11:56 AM

I don't know if this was advertent or not, but Satsuki, that is one of the most hilarious suggestions I've seen!  "Try to shoot in the shade."  LOL!


Yeah, this is the whole reason they make such slow film for cinematography:  Need the low speed for daylight exteriors.  Amazing digital STILL has not addressed this, as filters compromise image quality and sharpness.  Built in ND is OK, but what if you need another one on top of that?


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#5 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 01:50 PM

Why hilarious? If the guy is shooting day exteriors with effectively 320ASA film and doesn't have NDs, what else can he do?
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#6 Josh Gladstone

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 12:56 AM

Overcranking? You'd eat through your film a lot quicker, but you would get some nice slow motion shots out of it. (I'm not saying this is a good idea, but it is an option.)

 

Also, you could intentionally overexpose a stop and pull process the film. Your lens may also stop down smaller than f/16.


Edited by Josh Gladstone, 19 April 2016 - 01:00 AM.

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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:07 AM

Or close down the shutter angle but that's not possible with an Arri-S, but then, you can't overcrank one much either.

If a filmmaker can't figure out how to get ahold of an ND filter, he or she isn't being very resourceful -- you could just buy a still camera lens ND filter at a camera store and probably tape it on. But even better would be to borrow one.

If that's not possible then find a heavily shaded location like a park with a lot of trees and shoot in backlight...
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#8 Ben Recinos

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 08:52 PM

Hey everyone, 

Thank you all for some great advice. We will be using a 85 and a nd9 filter together to bring it down to 40 asa like what David Mullen suggested. It'll be 2 filters attached, I don't know if we have a single filter that does both. I'm excited for the shoot, and will be happy to post the results of the film up here when it's completed. We will be shooting this Friday, so in about 2 weeks should be good.

 

-Ben


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#9 Ari Michael Leeds

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 03:30 PM

Imagine a movie where they shot everythign in the shade, not for stylistic, or script-serving reasons (and, I could've SWORN you were harping, really really really hard on serving the story on me recently, Satsuki), but because they couldn't get ND filters!

B)

And man, lighten up.  You take it personal even when it isn't. 


If you've got a camera and you can't budget for an ND, it's a whole different set of playig rules.  The joke's on him, not on you, whatever your definitions of photography or cinematography are.  Hell, steal some opaque plastic from a construction sight if you're that desperate. B)  CVS sunglasses anyone?  4.99?


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#10 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 04:09 PM

Pretty sure it's just a cinematography class exercise, not a whole film. Remember those? I do. We'd take a Bolex, Arri S, or Scoopic out, set up a few shots and shoot a 100' roll. Ain't no script or story, just a few purty shots. Anyway, he's got NDs, so the point is moot.
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#11 Ari Michael Leeds

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 04:16 PM

It's in film stocks and processing, not student, so that's not immediately clear, though I guess I may have missed something earlier. 


Never had the luxury of film school, though I get asked where I went to one all the time.  A lot of what I learned was from generous, outgoing, knowlegeable people like Dave Mullen.


And you're still making this a contest; it's not.  I was agreeing with you.


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