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120FPS low light camera recommendation

FS7 RED 120FPS

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#1 Adam Weinberg

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:13 AM

EDIT - damnit, sorry I totally posted this in the wrong category.. oops

 

I have a studio shoot coming up in which I need to shoot a bunch of 120FPS footage with limited lighting (probably no more than a 2' 4 bank Kino and 2x 1x1 LEDs). I unfortunately don't have the budget to do much camera testing, and I'm wondering if there is a consensus as whether the Sony FS7 or a Red Dragon will give me better high speed low light performance.. would appreciate any insight!


Edited by Adam Weinberg, 22 April 2016 - 09:15 AM.

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#2 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:33 AM

Rent a Varicam35 for the day. That'll give you 120fps 4k at 5000 ISO - which you'll most likely need doing highspeed with nothing more than a kino and two led panels.


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#3 Adam Weinberg

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:02 AM

thanks for the tip - unfortunately that's out of budget as i know both FS7 / Dragon owners and will be able to get discounted rates .. not enough Varicam35s out in the wild yet :P

 

and yeah i know 120FPS is pushing it with that lighting gear but i need to give it a shot.. i may be able to light pretty close to talent and get away with something closer to 3200 ISO..


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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:40 AM

You need more or brighter lights then. Or T/1.4 lenses.


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#5 Adam Weinberg

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:48 AM

as inexpensive as light rentals may seem, more lights are most likely not in the budget. maybe i can add on a 1k tungsten but it's doubtful. i know i'll have to shoot with a low aperture.. i was planning on shooting the 120FPS footage at a max of F2.

 

my big question is just which sensor will have a better image (subjective, i know) / better noise handling in 120FPS at somewhere around 3200 ISO, a Dragon or a Sony FS7?


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#6 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:26 PM

If you need to crank the ISO that high, then I would go with the FS7. That said, anything above 2000ISO is not really ideal for high speed.

If you go with the Dragon, make sure to get the Low Light OLPF. If your finishing resolution is 1920x1080 or less, then you may reduce the appearance of noise by shooting 5K and downscaling in post.

Really though, you're bringing a stick to a gun fight with regard to your lighting package. My advice would be to drop the LEDs and get some 1K Parcans for $10/day.
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#7 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:57 PM

I dont know about the Dragon but for the Fs7 Im pretty sure its like the F5/55, in that over 66Fps you are not reading off a 4K sensor.. the camera cant get the data off the sensor quick enough at that FPS..  there is then  options ,full scan..the 4K sensor but pixel binning..(not line skipping though).. or Center crop.. the camera will read off a roughly s16 size .. centre crop of the sensor.. 

 

Advantage of CC no pixel binning,and the OLPF will work as its still corresponding to a 4K sensor.. just reading the centre only.. disadvantage you will have a crop factor on your lenses FOV.. 1.8 I think it is.. 

 

Disadvantage of full scan.. be careful of fixed pattern noise.. you now have a 4K OLPF on a 2K sensor.. (the F5/55 you can physically change the OLPF to a 2K one.. but the Fs7 you cant)

Advantage .. your lens FOV will stay the same.. 

 

Can you shoot outside? then your lighting problems will be alot less.. 

 

If your shooting Slog with the Fs7.. the camera will only record at ISO 2000.. regardless of any other settings.. (unless you burn in a LUT over the Slog,which is of course then no longer Slog)...


Edited by Robin R Probyn, 22 April 2016 - 09:59 PM.

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#8 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:24 PM

You don't need 2000 ASA, just focus on renting faster glass and optimizing your lighting. I would focus on lighting for 1000 ASA and if you need a bit more, you've got some room for pushing the camera. I'd just be very careful about fixed pattern noise.

I'd absolutely go Red Dragon, that's the right camera to use for something like this.

It will shoot REAL 4k (not UHD) @ 120fps at 9:1 compression, which is pretty good.
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#9 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:44 PM

Also a 2k blonde costs $30/day to rent. Surely you can scrape that much together at least to give yourself a fighting chance?


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#10 Adam Weinberg

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 11:06 PM

haha. people. thanks for all the advice but .. the 120FPS shots are part of what will be a mostly 60P shoot, lots of tight shots with appropriately tight lighting, and most of the 120FPS shots will be MACRO. i don't need to shoot with 1 or 2Ks for macro work! :P

 

i know light rentals are cheap, i just can't even begin to get into all the logistics .... i'm simply curious which sensor better handles noise at ISOs 2000 through 3200, it's just something i'd like to take into account! :P but i guess that's an awfully specific question and i should just find a way of determining this on my own..


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#11 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 11:33 PM

Of the two cameras, I would err towards the Red and over-sample as much as possible so you can run noise reduction later on and benefit from the downscale.  The FS is good, but it's not that good in my opinion (and lord knows I'm not a huge red fan)

 

Though I would still take some of my own $$ and try to get even just a mogul base on a stick and a 1K bulb( and keep it for myself) so as to have more than a gnats gonad in focus for the macro work. Ideally you'd like to be at at least a 16 or so in the first place regardless of framerate.


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#12 Adam Weinberg

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 10:29 AM

i think we're going for the gnats gonad aesthetic actually, it's a music video :P thanks for the tips!


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