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Small "reflections" with Krasnogorsk 3 film


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#1 mbaarviao

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 05:05 PM

I used for the first time a new Krasnogorsk 3, I used it with a Orwo UN54 30,5 meter, process with Reversal process.
All right, the image is the usual Orwo that I like in other format, good image, good exposure; but I noticed a "strange" thing, probably normal, but I try to ask it anyway: in few seconds of some scenes, only on, presumably, hightlight point of image (not in all frame!) there is a simil "pulse" of light, a say, in presumably where light reflected.
It's similar (but not it the problem) when the film taking light in lateral side, but, as said, it's not to the side of film, but in some highlited zone of frames.
I don't think it's a problem of light entered in the camera, though, one day, while Krasnogork was on the tripod fall to the ground. Absoluty no damage, not even a scratch, lens and body Ok, no crash, nothing, e i don't think that the problem it's a fall...
 
All right, I uploaded a "flying" video, taken with a Sony handycam, without any forethought. Bearing in mind that the video has a very strong flickering, it has distorted colors and light, the lines of interlacet, and all that we know happens with amteur telecine, but they are all defects of amateur telecine, which have nothing to do with what I indicated (which still is percebile in the movie).
In the rest of the movie that I uploaded, because flickering and wrong brightness do not see the problem, but at 3:03 you can focus well, the bright yellow border of little cabins, is iron, reflecting with little flash, for some time, you see That it is an artifact clear.
Obviously in projection will see better, and certainly it is not a ruined film, the film in new. Ah, is not the problem of the projector, I see them even with editor viewer.
 
For you, are: simple artifacts of light, reflections, things can also happen with camera in perfect condition? I admit that I saw these small lights also on other films,  called them "light scattering."
In short, I would be able to exclude that my K-3 has problems. If I was wrong to point the spotlight, or I was shot too in direct sun, or was it better to use the ND filters or are artifacts from lens, but that does not mean damaged lens it's OK!
I wonder if the camera would have had problem, even with the fall, it has light leaks, the film should not have been more veil and homogeneous veil and not in light areas such as these?
And if had damaged the lens or the shutter or mechanical of camera, should not see each other more film damage than simple micro lights?
Thank you! :)
 
Here the little telecine:
 
 

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#2 Mark Dunn

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 04:37 AM

Unfortunately I don't know what you're referring to. The video is not steady enough.


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#3 mbaarviao

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 05:24 AM

Mark, you're right, it's a very bad telecinema. But see this version, it's better:

At 1:03/1:04 minute a spot appears, for less than a second.
at 1:26 we see another spot in the corner between the roofs of two houses.
at 2:58 the spot is seen on the reflection of the small mobile edge.
I know that with this amateur telecine not seen much, but in projection much more, even if they are not annoying. They are whitish spots that appear everywhere, for less than a second, as if the film took light and was blotchy.

 

If needed I can do screenshot and  circling the precise points where the spots appear.


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#4 Mark Dunn

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 06:20 AM

Sorry, I still don't see it.


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#5 mbaarviao

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 11:57 AM

Here are two examples with screenshots and circle, as said are spots that appear for a few tenths of a second. Are rare, do not bother, I suppose they are normal, I think, only "dispersion of light". In projection they see more. There may also be problems of development? I can try to change process laboratory.

 

http://s32.postimg.o...fs8d7ph/DU1.jpg

 

http://s32.postimg.o...70enqkl/DU2.jpg

 

http://s32.postimg.o...ld3yerp/DU3.jpg


Edited by mbaarviao, 13 May 2016 - 12:02 PM.

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#6 Ruben Arce

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 05:45 PM

Your K3 looks just fine to me. I watched the video and I noticed that the "spots" occur when you cut. That is absolutely normal with the K3. It happens every time you cut or depress the trigger a little. The one at 1:03 is a cut, the one at 2:58 I can see you cut there too and on the other one probably you depressed the button a little slowing the speed of the film and overexposing that frame.

 

The k3 is not a professional camera, but it can create beautiful images. Every time I shoot with my K3 I use gaffe or electrical tape to seal the gap of the "magazine" and for sure is a good idea to cover the footage meter. My camera doesn't have any light leaks, but I still do tape the joints all the time, even the permanent ones. Deceleration can cause spots or over exposure too. I saw a beautiful film shot with the k3 by a guy from Spain, and he explained somewhere that he was intentionally depressing the button to get those flares. And lastly he most typical one flares that travel trough the lens and reflect light inside the camera and then to the film in a different shape. 

 

I'll comment on the spools that you sent to the lab on this one too. They are nice to have them if you are a collector, but Kodak or Fuji metal daylight spools offer better results. So if you get them back and you wanna keep those, good. But try to use the metal ones for your work.


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#7 mbaarviao

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 06:51 AM

Thank you, Ruben!
You're right, some spots are on cuts, when I press and release the button. I understand that, in this moment, there is a surplus or a anormal entering of light; in fact, sometimes, when i press the button (it is also make a noise like "clang" when around 24 fps and above, because it "must take turns"), I lose 3-4 frames between the two parts, and the frames are transparent, as if they had taken a great deal of light.
 
About the points which the spots are not in cutting moments but in the half moment of the shot, do you think are reflections of light, sun, halogen light, ecc, or button that can not be pressed constantly? You are right, the button K3 is plastic, it is not like that, es., of a Bolex, it can also not be pressed in the same way for all the shot. I'm sorry, I do not understand English very well. Did you notice that spots at the end of my film are in the shiny spot where reflected light of the halogen lamps? It is normal?
 
Therefore, you exclude problems of the fall of the K3? It's brand new and it has not made even a scratch and not light leaks.
 
I will follow your advice and I will use metal daylight spools and I put the tape on the gap of the lid.
 
The movie of your Spanish friend is visible online?
 
Thank you!

Edited by mbaarviao, 23 May 2016 - 07:03 AM.

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#8 Ruben Arce

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:26 PM

Yes you got the idea on my points. The K3 is not a professional camera, but if you respect it and treat it like a pro it is capable of delivering beautiful images. I tape around the gaps, cover the footage counter window, use a matte box, load it in subdued light and unload in total darkness, I keep the camera really clean, etc. I mean exactly what I would do with a more expensive or professional camera. 

 

I don't see major problems on your footage, just try applying those tips, probably the camera needs to be serviced too.

 

Here is the video that I mentioned before. The guy explain in the comments of the final music video (in spanish) how he depressed the button to achieve the effect. Inspiring work for sure.

 


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#9 mbaarviao

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 07:51 PM

Hi, Ruben!

In the film of spanish guy I can clearly see the spots; of course, they are colored and not white like mine, because the film is in colors, but it is clear that there are effect of light created by the technique described by him and you. Very good effect. When girls are in bed we see a mixture of "technique of release button" and sunlight and the effect is very beautiful.

I not found the comment where he speaks about the technique, it's not in the same video?
 
I saw that he also has the Krasnogork well covered by the scotch, on the footage counter window, on winding handle, on the various gaps, anywhere can come light. I see that it does not use necessarily black tapes for cover, that's good, I have blue too and can be useful to me.
 
I follow and I'll follow all your advice: clear machine, I use lens shade, I use load film in the subdued light (with other cameras I use the total darkess, but the Krasnogorsk 3 is a camera easy to jamming at load, and I need to watch a little the loading. Of course, in very subdued light, only necessary light). For unloading the film I using a black bag, like total darkness.
Two question:
-The original Zenit UV filter of original K-3 kit might be useful for more protect of light artefacts? The good thing is that I can use multiple filters together, if I were to shot, example, with the 80A in indoors with daylight films colored or with the yellow filter and b/n film, or with the ND, etc.
-What do you mean with "probably the camera needs to be serviced too"? Which must be well maintained and used with various professional tips you were saying or who it needs an overhaul? It is very new, end of production, years 1989-1990-1991, was not used.
Thank you, Ruben, you helping me a lot!

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#10 Ruben Arce

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:49 PM

I'm glad that you are finding useful information. The Spaniard filmmaker describes the "trick" in the comments section of the final music video in Spanish, you can find it on his channel. As you can see on the production pictures they treated the camera, lighting and production in a very professional way. I wouldn't risk using translucent tape. Black "electrical" tape is pretty inexpensive, and great at blocking light.

 

Regarding the use of filters I try to keep it at as least at possible when I shoot digital or film. Unless you are using expensive Tiffen, Schneither or similar quality most filters will bring their own problems. Even something as simple as a UV filter can create light reflections "ghosts" when pointed towards the light source, chromatic aberration, comas, soften the image, change color accuracy and many other problems. I use regular and graded ND's when necessary, but other than I just avoid them.

 

And talking about the status of the camera, well it's difficult to know. Professional cameras from my understanding are serviced every 2 years depending on how often they are used. 20 years without service is a long time, but the K3 is a trooper and it can work without problems. One common issue with old cameras in general is the degradation of the light sealing foam. But looks like your camera works fine. If you want really perfect images well you move to an Arri or Aaton camera.  I just sold my K3 and a Konvas 2M to get a professional camera, because I really want steady, sharp images now. But that's at a completely different price point.


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#11 mbaarviao

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 12:02 PM

You're right, better not to use filters, except ND.
You are right also that the K3 needs less care than other cameras.
After next shoot with black electrical tape and various attentions, I'll let you know the results!
Thank you!

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