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Black adjustments


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#1 shnitzel3

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 03:10 PM

Hi

I just got an XL2 and am doing some test shooting with it. can anyone explain to me the difference between black stretch/press, setup level, and master pedestal.
I under stand they all deal with the black, but I dont understand exactly how. All help would be apreciated. Thanks
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#2 Andy Joyce

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 06:42 PM

Hi

I just got an XL2 and am doing some test shooting with it. can anyone explain to me the difference between black stretch/press, setup level, and master pedestal.
I under stand they all deal with the black, but I dont understand exactly how. All help would be apreciated. Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


From Ash Greyson of DVinfo:

In general the XL2 provides EXCELLENT detail in both shadows and highlights, moreso than any other SD 1/3" CCD cam. However, most people are not used to this and to their eye, this image can look flat or milky. If you are one of those people, I suggest you play with the following setting combos...

Knee - HIGH, this will emphasize highlights (you WILL lose detail)

Setup Level - turn it down anywhere from -3 to - 6 (this will darken the picture, essentially crushing the blacks, you WILL lose detail in the shadows)

Master Pedestal - turn it down -3 to -6, (this will darken the shadows even more)


If people are looking washed out, you may be overexposing or what you may be seeing is increased detail due to a low knee/stretched black setting. Try pressing the blacks and turning down the Master Pedestal and/or setup level.

Master Pedestal and Setup level effect perceived saturation because they bring out detail in the default settings, more saturation in DV world = less detail. If you have a highlight or shadow that retains the detail information, that can look flat to some people.
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#3 Tim J Durham

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 08:40 PM

Hi

I just got an XL2 and am doing some test shooting with it. can anyone explain to me the difference between black stretch/press, setup level, and master pedestal.
I under stand they all deal with the black, but I dont understand exactly how. All help would be apreciated. Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Setup level: Ok, this is a numeric setting of the bottom of the gamma curve. Where the black
point is.
It is 7.5 IRE for broadcast television and 0 IRE for DVD and film out. When someone
wants the blacks crushed, they are artificially pulling the gamma curve down into,
but will go no lower than, the setup level.

Master Pedestal: When someone says they want to "crush the blacks", this is what you use. It
takes the entire gamma curve and stretches it downward. The further down you go,
the more of the curve gets piled into the setup point, but will not go lower.

Black stretch: This changes the slope of the toe area of the picture. To give a scene more or less
tonal range within the toe area. Positive black stretch values increase shades of grey
in the toe while negative values decrease shades of grey in the toe. The toe area
being the bottom part of the gamma curve, where the dark things live.

It would be highly instructive to hook your camera up to a waveform monitor so you can see what happens when you make adjustments to these settings. It is important stuff to understand
and can be confusing.
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#4 Tim J Durham

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 10:02 PM

One more thing to note when dealing with adjustments to the master pedestal and that is:

Adjustments to the pedestal can be done just as easily in post and I would recommend doing it that way because once you've crushed the blacks in camera, the shadow details that once existed in your scene are gone for good. Once done, it cannot be undone. Therefore, you are better off shooting with as wide a latitude as your camera can provide, then tweaking it in post where changes made can be easily undone.

By all means, experiment with the settings. But when money is involved, leave yourself the maximum post possibilities.
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#5 AshG

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 11:55 AM

100% correct Tim... in situations where there is a big light difference within the frame you have to bump the MP and increase contrast in post. If you are shooting someone in a shadowy area but dont want to blow out the sky or background this is invaluable. It will look weird in camera but easily corrected in post. These are the situations that make the MP, setup and black controls essential...




ash =o)
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