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How I simulate 8


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#1 Stephen Filleman

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 01:18 PM

I used to shoot a lot of Super 8 and Regular 8 film. Fifteen to twenty years ago I could get movie fiim developed through my local grocery store for $3 a roll. I would project it on older projectors. I am only a hobbyist, but i found the results amusing. I acquired a lot of Super 8 and Regular 8 cameras, including 2 Nizo Super 8, 3 Bolex H8 Standards, a D8L and a P1. I also acquired a lot of D mount lenses. I have Kern-Paillard Yvar and Switar primes, and Angenieux and Som Berthiot zooms. 

 

As we all know processing and film has become more and more expensive. I figure film, processing, and transfer to video is at a minimum $40 a roll for 2.5 minutes. That is cost prohibitive for me. Tomorrow I am donating almost all of my cameras and accessories to a local film school. They said they would be happy to have them and could give me a donation receipt so that I could write off the donation on my income taxes.

 

I am keeping all my D mount lenses though. I use them on my Pentax Q with a Q to D mount adapter. I can record up to 25 minutes of pretty good 720P video and approximate the look of regular 8. I can then easily edit my footage on my iMac. I can transfer my efforts to my Youtube channel. 

 

Here are some pictures of the Q with D mount lenses:

 

16548122639_b6b2466a8d_b.jpgPentax Q with Kern-Paillard Switar 13mm f.9 by vonfilm, on Flickr

16526961857_078270f5f3_b.jpgPentax Q with Kern-Paillard Switar 13mm f.9 by vonfilm, on Flickr

16728525471_6bac02ba48_b.jpgPentax  Q with Kern-Paillard 13mm f1.9 by vonfilm, on Flickr

16585304589_ed3a2686b6_b.jpgAngenieux 8-64 f 1.9 by vonfilm, on Flickr

16771444805_92e8173599_b.jpgAngenieux 8-64 f 1.9 by vonfilm, on Flickr

16749304466_88fdce3cef_b.jpgAngenieux 9-36mm f 1.9 by vonfilm, on Flickr


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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 01:22 PM

Can you provide a link to some footage?


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#3 Stephen Filleman

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 01:28 PM

Here are some tests:

 

16610686998_f08b2f4e75_b.jpgUntitled by vonfilm, on Flickr

16799634596_f1382c76f1_b.jpgUntitled by vonfilm, on Flickr

16203068534_16ecbb57a7_b.jpgUntitled by vonfilm, on Flickr


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#4 Stephen Filleman

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 01:33 PM

Here is a link to my neighborhood 4th of July parade on Youtube.

 


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#5 Stephen Filleman

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 01:41 PM

Here is a video on Youtube made with a Switar 12 mm f 1.5:

 


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#6 Stephen Filleman

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 04:27 PM

Here is a Youtube Video with the Angenieux zoom.

 


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#7 Stephen Filleman

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 08:15 PM

This video is with the 8-64 Angeniux.
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#8 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 08:45 PM

Apart from the very large depth of field it doesn't look much like 8mm though does it?

I guess it's a good thing that those beautiful D mount lenses are still getting used, although it has driven up their prices. That 0.9/13mm Switar is just gorgeous (I've got one too), but wow are they expensive these days!
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#9 Will Montgomery

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 09:28 PM

Great job repurposing those lenses.

 

As Dom said, it looks nothing like Super 8 but if you are trying to simulate Super 8 for fun, you can probably find some plugins that will get you a little closer. Especially some grain overlays.

 

Here are some Super 8 stills from a really bad Super 8 camera for reference...note the completely dirty gate on the 2nd one. I'd like to say that was a creative choice but more like I got lazy and didn't CHECK THE GATE!!!

 

 

super_8_1.jpg

 

 

super_8_2.jpg


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#10 Stephen Filleman

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 11:20 AM

Dom and Will,

Thanks for your comments. You are right, my D mount video does not have the flicker, grain and gate effects of 8mm film. If I can find some plug in effects for I Movie I might try adding them sometimes. Most of the time I am just shooting home movies to record a place or an event. I shot a lot of 8mm film between 1989 and 2005 and still have much of it on hand to view.

 

I read on the Super 8 forum of an estimate of about $60 for film,processing, and scan in the U.S. for each 2 1/2 minutes of 8mm film. I don't see how anyone can justify that unless they need the 8mm look for commercial purposes. I guess there is a market for it if one can sell a new Logmar camera for $6,000. 

 

I do believe the Q/D mount footage does have a kind of retro look. On the Q i can also choose simulations for Bright, Natural, Portrait, Landscape, Vibrant, Radiant, Muted, Bleach Bypass, Reversal Film, Monochrome(B&W), and Cross Processing. The parameters on these can be adjusted also. 

 

I like being able to shoot a long take up to 25 minutes long. This allows me to set up and shoot an event like a parade on a tripod while visiting with the family. I know that really long shots can be kind of cinematically boring, but these are just home movies. I like the interval shooting setting for making time lapse. You can use either manual or automatic exposure or kind of a combination of the two by using the iris on the lenses. On can also shoot still pictures with their D mount lenses. There are Flickr groups where you can view these stills. If you wonder where all the D mount lenses are going and why their prices are rising, I think the Pentax Q to D mount adapters are the reason. Adapters are available for the Q for almost every 35mm SLR lens also. Some folks use huge telephot lenses with this tiny camera. Check out the Pentax forum for examples of this.

 

I love to be able to view my shots immediately and edit them in I Movie the same day. I used to believe in the superiority of film over video. I still do, but HD video is a lot better these days. 

 

The D mount lenses are why I came to prefer Regular 8 to Super 8. The only movie film cameras I am keeping are my Bolex D8L, P1, and my favorite camera the Carena Zoomex S with the reflex Angenieux 6.5-52mm zoom. The Carena winds by twisting the grip. I may get the urge to burn some Regular 8 film on some rare occasion. No telling how long it will remain available.

 

I can't explain why I love my D mount lenses so much. I think they are little jewels, an example of bygone workmanship and precision. They will outlast my Q. I need to get more Q's to be assured of using them for the rest of my days. Besides the Q, I know of no other camera that can use them. I just got really tired of switching 8mm film rolls around to shoot the other side.

 

I think an 8mm film user might use the Q/D mount combination to experiment with in advance of burning up film.

Here is a picture of the H8's I am donating to the film school. I am also giving them a bunch of other R8 and S8 cameras.

27612747243_fa79d2cb39_k.jpgUntitled by vonfilm, on Flickr


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#11 Stephen Filleman

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:17 PM

Here are some picture of the Carena Zoomex S and its' fitted case taken with the Angenieux 8-64 zoom. This actually a C mount lens on a C/Q adapter:

 

28025771520_9b91c957d9_k.jpgUntitled by vonfilm, on Flickr

28025769960_bceba61686_k.jpgUntitled by vonfilm, on Flickr

28025767990_a31a4ee609_k.jpgUntitled by vonfilm, on Flickr

28025765980_f3f5d8d873_k.jpgUntitled by vonfilm, on Flickr

28025764030_e3971eed04_k.jpgUntitled by vonfilm, on Flickr


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#12 Will Montgomery

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 02:41 PM

Prices are high, that's for sure.

 

With home movies, what you shoot tends to be more precious; you only shoot the important stuff. Makes editing much easier. What I love is that I can go back and re-scan all my film into 2k (or 4k with 16 & 35mm) whereas any video shot in the 80's & 90's in SD is stuck in that resolution forever.


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#13 Stephen Filleman

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 03:37 PM

Will you are right, that 8mm stock is precious. I am for the most part unhappy with the avi scans that I had made several years ago.

 

What is the best way to have a 2K scan done today? How much would it be to have about 100 8mm reels scanned?


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#14 Chris Burke

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 06:00 PM

Will you are right, that 8mm stock is precious. I am for the most part unhappy with the avi scans that I had made several years ago.

 

What is the best way to have a 2K scan done today? How much would it be to have about 100 8mm reels scanned?

It is usually priced by the foot and with your amount of footage, you will qualify for a discount. Contact Cinelab or GammaRay digital for a quote. Will is spot on. film is forever. I have been scanning family slides that are over fifty years old. Some beat up a little, but the vast majority are in great shape. I shoot nothing but film when I photograph my family. 


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#15 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:13 AM

 The D mount lenses are why I came to prefer Regular 8 to Super 8. The only movie film cameras I am keeping are my Bolex D8L, P1, and my favorite camera the Carena Zoomex S with the reflex Angenieux 6.5-52mm zoom. The Carena winds by twisting the grip. I may get the urge to burn some Regular 8 film on some rare occasion. No telling how long it will remain available.
 
I can't explain why I love my D mount lenses so much. I think they are little jewels, an example of bygone workmanship and precision. They will outlast my Q. I need to get more Q's to be assured of using them for the rest of my days. Besides the Q, I know of no other camera that can use them. I just got really tired of switching 8mm film rolls around to shoot the other side.
 



Glad to hear you're keeping some Regular 8 cameras. I've got about 40, for a few years there I couldn't stop exploring their diversity, collecting and testing them all, pulling them apart. But I should probably cull the herd a little. I love that Zoomex S too, such a wonderful design, and a great zoom range.

There was another great design by a company named Sekonic that allowed the entire film chamber to be rotated to avoid having to manually flip the spools. Very ingenious, unfortunately the fixed zoom was rather crappy!

Since the demise of colour reversal I shoot a lot less 8mm, projecting one's own films is so magical that watching a video transfer feels rather pointless to me. But B&W reversal is still viable, and has its charms. I'm so glad I captured so much of my children's first years on film, it's so vibrantly different to all the video/iPhone footage (although sound is handy to have sometimes).

I have a collection of D mount lenses as well, and agree they are like jewels. Some of the best lens makers in history made D mounts - Taylor Hobson, Angenieux, Schneider, Bausch and Lomb, Kern. They sometimes used 8mm as a testing ground for innovations that later made their way into the more professional formats. Some famous manufacturers made 8mm lenses with their own proprietary mounts - Zeiss and Canon come to mind - so they are only useable on the rather rare cameras they were designed for, until perhaps someone makes an adapter.
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#16 Martin Baumgarten

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 07:07 PM

Interesting topic using the D-mount lenses on a digital camera.  I say, whatever works to create images in either still or movie formats is fine.  However, film is film, and until the day comes if ever that film doesn't exist, I will continue to shoot film when I want film, and digital for digital or experimental etc.  I agree, things have gotten much more expensive as the film using world has shrunk down.  But then, so many other hobbies and passions that require specialty items and support can also be expensive.  I would never suggest saying that crayons are a substitute for water color, or house paint for oil.  So many of us use digital capture these days, whether in still or video, and yes, it can be great, but it is not film.   Both media can coexist in our artistic world, and both offer their own esthetics to imaging.  If I had several million dollars to play with, I would see that we would have all kinds of film types and support, but that is just a pipe dream, not even feasible.  Let's hope that Ferrania are successful with their Color Reversal film venture, and in the meantime, we still have some various film emulsions to continue to use in our aging cameras; so many that still work perfectly too.  Just my thoughts here.


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