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Adapting Arri Standard to PL on SR2


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#1 Patrick Anton Saefkow Seaman_64263

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 03:49 AM

I just got my hands on some arri standard schneider lenses for my arri sr2 with a pl mount. I did this knowing that adapters exist, but now that I go to buy one I'm a bit confused. 

 

This is the one I'm looking at, it screws into the lens and it's $50, so I can just buy 3 and not worry.

http://www.ebay.ca/i...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

Are there any options that are more in line with what I'm accustomed to where there is a single easy to use adapter? Something that properly adjusts the flange distance like when adapting m43 to ef, and basically acts like it is the mount that the lens expects to be seated in?

 

I'd love to hear if you have any recommendations. Thanks. 


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#2 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 05:58 AM

I've never seen one for standard mount lenses, only for the Arri bayonet mount.


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#3 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 06:43 AM

Well the first step is to work out which version of Standard mount lenses you have - whether the lens mount needs to rotate in the camera mount or not. Schneider made both types.

 

Early Standard mount lenses will have the focus ring and scale solidly connected to the outer cylinder of the mount, with an internal focussing group that is held in position in the camera mount by a protruding tab. So the entire outer part of the lens mount needs to rotate inside the camera mount in order to focus. 

 

If you have that kind of lens, you need an adapter that has the protruding tab and allows the lens to rotate, like this:

https://www.duclosle...dard-pl-adapter

Les Bosher and others also used to make them, they're a bit pricy due to the necessary complexity. (Be aware that these sometimes don't work on modern digital PL cameras because the protruding back fouls on interior baffles.)

 

If you have newer Standard mount lenses where the focus ring rotates independently of the mount (ie you can hold the mount and turn the focus ring) then any adapter that clamps onto the mount will work. This type with an included snap ring is quite reliable, and works for Bayonet mount lenses also: 

http://www.visualpro...0&Cat=3&Cat2=43

 

 

The Chinese one you linked to is certainly affordable, but as always, you get what you pay for. In my experience many cheap ones are out of tolerance somewhere, occasionally so much so that they don't work properly. The back-focus is rarely exact, the materials are often substandard, and you may need to remove some burrs. But sometimes they're OK. As a technician I also find the grub screw attachment crude and potentially damaging to the lens, but I'm possibly being a bit precious. ;)

 

None of these options allow you to leave the adapter in the camera mount, you always need to remove the lens to take off the adapter. But the more expensive versions can be quickly swapped over without damaging the lens, and are more likely to be correctly machined for back-focus.

 


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#4 david west

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 04:17 AM

Dom:

 

could you help me with the dimension of the flange face to the tab in your photo? tab thickness would be cool too.   thanks.... just spent 30 minutes trying to find the photo i had see somewhere to post on this thread and its your photo from your blog... its late here so it just seems bizarre... i have to make the style adapter in your first link and also have a few like the second link. i can find flange distance for arri standard mount but it seems meaningless if i don't know where the tab is in relation to that .... hope that makes sense.... cheers, david

 

 

 

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#5 david west

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 04:50 AM

I just got my hands on some arri standard schneider lenses for my arri sr2 with a pl mount. I did this knowing that adapters exist, but now that I go to buy one I'm a bit confused. 

 

 

Patrick:

 

i just purchased this one a few months ago, USA, so it might get to you a bit quicker....

 

 

pl adapter on eBay in USA

 

 

before you buy-----   hold the barrel of your lens in your fingertips, adjust the iris, then try and focus.  if the focus adjusts then you are golden.  if not you need the fancy adapter that locks in the slot and allows the barrel to turn as the innards are locked in place.

 

the next step if you are able to go the cheap adapter route is the mounting.

 

 it is NOT totally accurate since the slot does not engage.

  • figure out where the slotted tab of the pl mount part of your adapter will engage in the pl mount so that you can orient UP as UP when all is tightened.  
  • then i set the set screws loosely and then slid the lens all the way into the adapter, then backed it out about the width of the thickness of a few business cards (the focus has to move).  tighten one of the three set screws a teensy bit more.
  • then took it outside and made sure that the farthest mountains that i could see were in focus while the lens was focussed to infinity.  
  • slide in or out as required to get infinity in focus (loosening your tightest set screw first).
  • remove from camera and then tighten the set screws a teensy bit more. too tight and you will bend the barrel and restrict focus movement. too loose and your shiny new lens falls to the asphalt.

 

good luck and hope you have the type that allows focussing without barrel movement.


Edited by david west, 22 July 2016 - 04:52 AM.

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#6 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 08:35 AM

Dom:
 
could you help me with the dimension of the flange face to the tab in your photo? tab thickness would be cool too.   thanks.... just spent 30 minutes trying to find the photo i had see somewhere to post on this thread and its your photo from your blog... its late here so it just seems bizarre... i have to make the style adapter in your first link and also have a few like the second link. i can find flange distance for arri standard mount but it seems meaningless if i don't know where the tab is in relation to that .... hope that makes sense.... cheers, david


Hi David,

It's Friday night here, so I won't be near a Standard mount camera til Monday, but you can deduce those dimensions from a lens.

The tab needs to enter the slot that is at the very back and just inside the edge of the lens mount. The tab width needs to be very close to the slot width to prevent any backlash as the focus is racked, the penetration depth and the tab thickness are not as crucial. The position of the tab on the mount circumference determines where the focus marks line up.

The things inside the mount that you are arrowing are not tabs but retractable bars that fit into the channel that rings the end of the lens mount, which prevent the lens from falling out. They need to be positioned exactly enough to prevent any axial movement in the held lens, but still allow the mount to rotate. The distance from flange face to leading edge of the lens mount channel is crucial here.

So the Duclos type adapter I linked to above needs both the tab arching back into the rear of the lens, and retractable bars or shelves that can hold and release the lens while also allowing it to rotate, quite a complex arrangement.

Hope all that made sense and that my memory of it is correct.
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#7 david west

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 11:48 AM

The distance from flange face to leading edge of the lens mount channel is crucial here.

 

 

Thanks for the reply Dom.....

 

clear as mud... no actually i understand all of that, i should have made my question clearer and that would reference what you just said above.

 

in making other mounts the FFD, or flange distance for each type of mount seems clearly defined. on PL it is from the face of the mount surface to the film surface. easy to get pretty close with a lathe or mill when making an adapter, and most high end designs allow for brass shims to fine tune so you can get it dead on.

 

to design a mount for the Arri Standard the lens does not actually bottom out on any specific surface. there is the little bit of free space between the flange face and the focus grip that allows the barrel to turn inside the mount while the tabs/cams/retractable bars lock the lens in place.  the film plane seems to still be gauged from the front of the mount for the 52mm FFD, but as you say, "The distance from flange face to leading edge of the lens mount channel is crucial here." 

 

i could get pretty close by taking the lens with the cheap mount that i have and measure from the slot to the bottom face of the adapter.

 

​if you would not mind taking a measurement on Monday i would really appreciate it. (i could double check and see how close i got in my guesstimate of 14mm from flange face to top of retractable bars)

 

thanks so much,

cheers,

david


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#8 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 07:48 PM

I'm pretty sure Standard mount lenses do seat on the camera flange. Adapters are meant to seat down on the lens, the second one I linked to from Visual Products uses a clip ring around the lens mount channel and screws a ring against it to clamp the adapter between clip ring and lens seat.

If you're having to shift an adapter away from the lens seat to enable focussing, it's because the adapter is crappy and doesn't have clearance for the focus ring to turn. Different lenses can have slightly different focus ring dimensions, but a properly made adapter for newer type S mount lenses should seat while allowing the focus ring to rotate (and travel axially).

(I strove for a more dirty dishwater clarity that time.. )
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#9 david west

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 11:29 PM

(I strove for a more dirty dishwater clarity that time.. )

;>

 

 

49 dollar adapter.... cheap aluminum.... but it was a down and dirty quick solution to try out my used black magic camera and see if it worked.  i stumbled across a fantastic deal on some speed panchros so now i have to build 3 adapters.... it is actually pretty exciting due to all the hype over speed panchros.... i have a cnc bench top mill that has taken me 12 years to finish and now i have the motivation to hook up the last few wires... i have made some adapters in the past, mounted an angenieux 12-120 on my xl1 and was amazed at the difference a vintage lens made... hard to describe, but it was just warmer than the sharper stock video lens. 

 

 

double checked the clearance on the adapter--  .33mm  just enough to turn freely. the cheap one has no real depth stop///  the better ones have that keyway that also stops the lens with "just enough" clearance for the focus knob to spin freely. the adapter is almost the same as the one Patrick mentioned in the first post of the thread.

 

 

IMG_0558.png


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