Jump to content




Photo

Using twenty-year old Kodak EXR 16mm stock?


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Todd Anderson

Todd Anderson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Other

Posted 24 July 2016 - 12:38 AM

Hello,

 

I have two sealed loads of 50D (7245) and one sealed load of 200T (7293) of 16mm Kodak EXR stock. I bought these used many years ago. So, there is a possibility of not knowing the early storage history. I have had them through about three location moves and believe I have kept them in the fridge most of that time (they were a few years old, I believe, when I purchased them fifteen years ago). I was thinking of loading them up in my Bolex and just having some fun (nothing that would be critical if it was a failure; besides the development cost and scanning). I sometimes like shooting expired still film stock (though, more in the four to six year old range). I realize there would be mild to heavy graininess associated with loads and some major color shifts, which I am not too concerned about as long as the grain isn't the size of golf balls. I imagine the 50D will have been holding up better than the 200T. I was thinking to overexpose by one to two stops to compensate. What do you think?

 

Anyhow, has anyone else shot any twenty year old 16mm stock lately and had it developed and scanned?

 

Let me know your thoughts!

 

Thanks,

Todd

 

  • 0




#2 Jay Young

Jay Young
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 379 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Lexington KY

Posted 24 July 2016 - 06:07 AM

I have some 7296 that I shot.  Turned out fine. the colorist was able to best light a workprint for me.

The stock had a strong green tint. I rated it at 320.

 

I had a DPX scan of it done, but I seem to have deleted it, so I can't show you.

 

This was after the stock had set in an un-regulated building for 5 years.


  • 0

#3 Kenny N Suleimanagich

Kenny N Suleimanagich
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 843 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • New York

Posted 24 July 2016 - 08:28 AM

 

I shot a roll of 7245 a few months ago. Rated it 12 ASA. Besides some of the film's carbon backing sticking to the emulsion, the grain and colors gave me a really nice look. 


Edited by Kenny N Suleimanagich, 24 July 2016 - 08:28 AM.

  • 0

#4 Todd Anderson

Todd Anderson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Other

Posted 24 July 2016 - 11:33 AM

Jay,

 

Thanks for the information. You mention the stock had set in an un-regulated building for 5 years. Do you mean it was sitting at room temperature for that time frame, or something more extreme (I’m assuming it wasn’t refrigerated)? 

 

—T

 

 

 

Kenny,

 

That footage looks fantastic! And the content of your little piece is wonderful. I love everything about it. Do you know the storage history of the roll you shot? Was is stored at room temperature, in the fridge, or in the freezer as far as you know? Or, did your friend just have it laying around?

 

Also, you mentioned some of the film’s carbon backing sticking to the emulsion. Did that cause any sort of complications with the film processing or scanning? (meaning, were you leaving behind any residue of that backing during the lab or post house’s respective processing or scanning)?

 

Lastly, was the scan from a ARRI scanner, Spirit, or Lasergraphics? Did you receive LOG DPX files and colored the footage yourself, or were you given a color collected ProRes quicktime file from the post house?

 

Thanks again for sharing, I appreciate it.

 

 

—T


Edited by Todd Anderson, 24 July 2016 - 11:34 AM.

  • 0

#5 Jay Young

Jay Young
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 379 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Lexington KY

Posted 24 July 2016 - 12:36 PM

Jay,

 

Thanks for the information. You mention the stock had set in an un-regulated building for 5 years. Do you mean it was sitting at room temperature for that time frame, or something more extreme (I’m assuming it wasn’t refrigerated)? 

 

—T

 

I mean I forgot I had the film.  It was stored in a box, on a concrete floor, in a building without heat/cooling for 5 years through the summer and winter.

The worst part about it is that its quite unruly if it comes unraveled the slightest bit.

 

The average mean temperature was likely 25c in that location, except for in the winter.  The box was under some shelves and protected from daylight covered up by other boxes.


  • 0

#6 Kenny N Suleimanagich

Kenny N Suleimanagich
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 843 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • New York

Posted 24 July 2016 - 02:18 PM

Thanks for the love!

The stock was purchased at a yard sale in maybe 2008, then sat in a fridge since then. The little white and green blotches that you might see towards the end are indicative of that. You essentially get no information since light can't pass through the negative. It is possible to manually clean this off though, I hear. It was only on the last 30 feet. I had it happen recently with some Reala 500D that I shot.

It was scanned on the Lasergraphics Director at Metropolis in NYC
  • 0

#7 Satsuki Murashige

Satsuki Murashige
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3081 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 24 July 2016 - 02:24 PM



Damn, that's a big squirrel! Nice work Kenny :)
  • 0

#8 Todd Anderson

Todd Anderson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Other

Posted 24 July 2016 - 02:33 PM

Jay,

 

I now understand. Thanks for the additional information.

 

—T

 

 

Kenny,

 

Yes, I saw the white specs around the 2:20 mark. Looks like it only effected those brief few seconds. Not too bad. The majority of the footage had a really nice / interesting look. Color will always be subjective, even if it is fresh stock, but your footage looked fairly natural in some areas and then other areas had this sort of interesting ’bleached’ look in some of the colors and the flesh tones. It was also super clean grain wise. I'm sure getting plenty of even light helped with that. 

 

Did you color grade the footage yourself, or did you have the post house grade it? 

 

Thanks again!

 

Todd


  • 0

#9 Kenny N Suleimanagich

Kenny N Suleimanagich
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 843 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • New York

Posted 25 July 2016 - 12:18 AM

I think I went a little overkill with the overexposure, but it was really just a small test and a way to spend an afternoon (with my grandfather!). It held latitude remarkably well. Some parts of the shade metered fine at 50 EI but were under at 12 EI.

Metropolis provides a best-light grade of everything they scan, alongside the ungraded PR 444 master (or whatever other format you request). I told them the film was decades old. What you see here is basically their grade with some small tweaks.

I can't wait to share th Reala footage. Unfortunately for viewing/posting purposes that was for an actual production and they are currently in post.
  • 0

#10 Todd Anderson

Todd Anderson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Other

Posted 25 July 2016 - 09:55 AM

Kenny,

 

Thank you for the addition information. And, yes, the latitude seemed wonderful. I usually shoot with a Aaton XTR, but I am taking a small trip to Portland and it is of course easier to just travel with a wind up Bolex. I went ahead and purchased a new roll of 50D and 250D from Kodak, but I am going to bring along two rolls of my expired film (a roll of 50D and 200T), as well. I hope to have time to shoot both the new and expired. We'll see...

 

And yes, I would love to see the results of the expired Reala footage. Post it back in this tread if it ever comes in!

 

— T


  • 0


Zylight

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Rig Wheels Passport

Technodolly

Glidecam

Pro 8mm

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Abel Cine

The Slider

CineLab

Technodolly

CineLab

Pro 8mm

Abel Cine

Rig Wheels Passport

Zylight

Paralinx LLC

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

Visual Products

The Slider

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Ritter Battery

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

rebotnix Technologies

Willys Widgets