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Sony F5 - 4K Upgrade

Is it worth it?

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#1 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 04:21 AM

Hey everybody

 

I was wondering if anyone has experience with sony's official "PMW F5 software upgrade kit"?

It enables XAVC 4K & QFHD Internal Recording. 

 

How ist the quality and do you think it is worth it?

 

THX a lot for sharing your experience?

 

Philipp


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#2 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 04:53 AM

I did the up grade when it first came out.. of course worth doing.. the only reason it was offered is a DP in the UK found a hack in the F5 to enable it to record internal 4K.. despite Sony having previously insisting the F5 firmware was not able to do so.. so being caught out they came out with a new OS to stop the hack.. but offered the approved update for $1,000.. thats a real steal compared to the $15,000 price increase to the F55.. 

Basically the F5 was always able to record 4K internally.. but had been hobbled on purpose .. fair enough.. its cheaper to make them all the same and then limit what the camera can do.. Arri do this and call it buying licenses .. so all you are doing is buying an electric "key" to enable the functions already in there.. 

 

Its works perfectly.. Ive shot a ton of stuff in 4K and UHD.. it was all in there in the first place.. the F5 sensor is also 4K (17-9)..for $1000 it was an absolute gift.. new F5,s come with the up grade already activated  .. it saved me having to buy a whole new camera.. if you never have to shoot 4K well then you dont need it.. except it would put up the second hand sale price I would think.. 

 

Alot of corp work I do is now shot on 4K.. not for delivery but so they can crop into the 4K frame for close ups..  add pans and small zooms..and stabilize shots..  a double edged sword ! but very often requested..  personally I have found the upgrade to be manna from heaven..


Edited by Robin R Probyn, 22 August 2016 - 04:58 AM.

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#3 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 05:56 AM

I did the up grade when it first came out.. of course worth doing.. the only reason it was offered is a DP in the UK found a hack in the F5 to enable it to record internal 4K.. despite Sony having previously insisting the F5 firmware was not able to do so.. so being caught out they came out with a new OS to stop the hack.. but offered the approved update for $1,000.. thats a real steal compared to the $15,000 price increase to the F55.. 

Basically the F5 was always able to record 4K internally.. but had been hobbled on purpose .. fair enough.. its cheaper to make them all the same and then limit what the camera can do.. Arri do this and call it buying licenses .. so all you are doing is buying an electric "key" to enable the functions already in there.. 

 

Its works perfectly.. Ive shot a ton of stuff in 4K and UHD.. it was all in there in the first place.. the F5 sensor is also 4K (17-9)..for $1000 it was an absolute gift.. new F5,s come with the up grade already activated  .. it saved me having to buy a whole new camera.. if you never have to shoot 4K well then you dont need it.. except it would put up the second hand sale price I would think.. 

 

Alot of corp work I do is now shot on 4K.. not for delivery but so they can crop into the 4K frame for close ups..  add pans and small zooms..and stabilize shots..  a double edged sword ! but very often requested..  personally I have found the upgrade to be manna from heaven..

 

Thanks for the fast response!!

Did you recognise any improvment about the "rolling shutter effect".

 

I'm working at the moment on a documentary film and we just wrapped the first two days.

I really liked the F5 setup, I just was surprised how bad it handles moving vertical lines...

 

The attached still is a truck passing in front of the camera. It's the back of the Truck and

should be vertical.


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#4 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 06:01 AM

Rolling shutter effect on Sony F5. (HD/25fps / 90° shutterangle)

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  • Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 12.52.45.jpg

Edited by Philipp Kunzli, 22 August 2016 - 06:04 AM.

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#5 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 06:51 AM

I dont think the upgrade has anything to do with rolling shutter.. due to the fast refresh rate Ive never had any problems with it on the F5.. except shooting from a bullet train at 300km with posts next to the track.. but ordinary traffic no problem at all.. all the Arri,s are also rolling shutter.. but unlike DSLR,s the refresh rate is very fast so its only in extreme cases.. and flash photography its a problem..

 

I usually shoot at 180 degree shutter too.. I can only guess that your 90 degree shutter is causing the problem ?  can I ask why you are shooting at 90 degree,s.. 


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#6 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 06:59 AM

I dont think the upgrade has anything to do with rolling shutter.. due to the fast refresh rate Ive never had any problems with it on the F5.. except shooting from a bullet train at 300km with posts next to the track.. but ordinary traffic no problem at all.. all the Arri,s are also rolling shutter.. but unlike DSLR,s the refresh rate is very fast so its only in extreme cases.. and flash photography its a problem..

 

I usually shoot at 180 degree shutter too.. I can only guess that your 90 degree shutter is causing the problem ?  can I ask why you are shooting at 90 degree,s.. 

 

 

The choice for the 90° shutter is a creative one. It's a documentary about catastrophes and practicing how to react during events like this. The movie has "two layers" and in the one during the exercise and practicing, I'd like to give the image a bit more of an edge


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#7 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 07:20 AM

ah ok fair enough.. sorry I cant be of any help.. the upgrade is 100% not going to change the rolling shutter.. the F55 has global shutter and all the wiring to achieve it on the sensor.. that why is a lower ISO .. or one of the reasons anyway.. but the 4K/UHD works perfectly..

 

Ive never noticed any problems with rolling shutter my self.. except at 300km,s and that was only poles very close to the track.. but Ive never shot traffic at below 180 shutter.. if it was a known problem there would have been alot of noise about it on the Sony forums.. 


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#8 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 08:30 AM

ah ok fair enough.. sorry I cant be of any help.. the upgrade is 100% not going to change the rolling shutter.. the F55 has global shutter and all the wiring to achieve it on the sensor.. that why is a lower ISO .. or one of the reasons anyway.. but the 4K/UHD works perfectly..

 

Ive never noticed any problems with rolling shutter my self.. except at 300km,s and that was only poles very close to the track.. but Ive never shot traffic at below 180 shutter.. if it was a known problem there would have been alot of noise about it on the Sony forums.. 

 

 

Interesting... I'll have to check out some different shutter angles. In reality it shouldn't increase the effect... It actually should be more towards the opposite.


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#9 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 05:39 PM

could it be something to do with the capture of that frame.. ?  as a quick test.. just look through the VF and wave the camera around.. I don't think you will see any jello effect..  rolling shutter is scan from top to bottom.. but this speed is so high in the F5 .. like the Alexa/Amira/RED etc.. that it shouldn't be a problem for 99% of shots.. except flash photography you get weird bands of light.. but Ive noticed this in a few films now and I think its becoming an "excepted" look now..


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#10 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:36 AM

but this speed is so high in the F5 .. like the Alexa/Amira/RED etc.. that it shouldn't be a problem for 99% of shots.. 

 

...but a truck passing by at 20-30 miles/hour...? I definitely never recognised distortions like this on the Alexa or Amira...

I attached a draft floorpan how the setup looked like.

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#11 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:15 AM

Yes totally agree,it shouldn't be happening.. I have just honestly not ever had the same problem..  or read about people complaining about rolling shutter problems on the Sony f5 website..Ive had my camera just over 2 yrs or another sites for that matter.. Ive read that the refresh rate on the F5 is the same as the Amira.. some guys did a test of a few camera,s on some site.. but I have never shot at 90 degree shutter.. thats the only difference.. your not on centre crop or anything are you.. or 2K.. 


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#12 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:55 AM

your not on centre crop or anything are you.. or 2K.. 

 

Everything standard... no center crop / 25fps / HD/1080 / XAVC ... and 90°...  (S-Gammut3/cine/Log-3)

But other then that, I was and I'm quite Happy with the performance and handling of the F5. 


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#13 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 08:03 AM

do you get the same with 180 shutter.. your noticing it alot or just this one shot..  does it replay like that (like a go pro ) or just when frame capture.. I must have shot Tokyo traffic many thousands of times and have never had any reports of rolling shutter effect from any post house..  in fact I,ll be doing it tomorrow .. Im keep an eye out for it.. 


Edited by Robin R Probyn, 23 August 2016 - 08:07 AM.

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