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K3 sync?


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#1 D-Reaux

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 05:00 PM

I was planning on shooting a short film either this summer or next winter. I have my mind set on the entire thing being in black and white 16mm. My camera is a Krasnogorsk K3, no modifications (as of yet, im planning on expanding the film gate). I would like to have decently synced dialogue and i was wondering what my options were for this camera. i did a search and could not find it.

Thanks
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#2 Ian Marks

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 05:24 PM

Because your camera uses a clockwork motor, it's not a good choice for making a film involving lots of synchronous sound (specifically, long dialogue scenes). The speeds on spring-wound cameras tend to be somewhat "iffy." On top of that, you've got camera noise - even if you were to fit a sync motor (such as the Tobin), the camera would probably be too noisy to record simultaneous sound with unless you put it in some kind of sound-proof enclosure.

However, there's no reason you couldn't write a film that tells it story without the need for extensive dialogue. Any dialogue or sound effect needed could be added in post.
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#3 jeremy edge

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 06:30 PM

contact clive tobin at
tobincinemasystems.com

He's supposed to have a motor ready for the k3 for around $595
sometime real soon.the install will cost you $400 though from an outside camera shop

I was lucky enough to snag an older k3 with an earlier version of that motor and I really like it.
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#4 D-Reaux

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 10:04 PM

Because your camera uses a clockwork motor, it's not a good choice for making a film involving lots of synchronous sound (specifically, long dialogue scenes). The speeds on spring-wound cameras tend to be somewhat "iffy." On top of that, you've got camera noise - even if you were to fit a sync motor (such as the Tobin), the camera would probably be too noisy to record simultaneous sound with unless you put it in some kind of sound-proof enclosure.


Actually, my k3 is relatively quiet for a springwound camera, and inside a large down coat that i have its virtually silent :ph34r:. Now, I've noticed that in modern cinema, few shots last more than 30 seconds. so if i were to record sound and shoot the scene simultaneously (no crystal sync motors or anything, jes the straight spring motor) and cut back and forth between two characters, then put it all into an NLE in post, could i match up those small segments of dialogue from the longer conversation? or would it still be too far off?

As far as the "writing a story that does not require extensive dialogue," ive done that before and its a lot of fun, and forces one to be creative. However, the screenplay for this movie was written before i made this decision (and im not the writer, as is sometimes the case with my films). I know im probably better off buying a more expensive, and more adaptable camera, but i thought id see wut could be done with what i have. cash is tight.
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#5 jeremy edge

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Posted 14 June 2005 - 11:43 PM

I believe most editing programs have some time stretch tools ,so I think you could compensate in post by adjusting the speed and taking a lot of time in post.if you finish on video.

Other than a flash strobe ,you need something to test speed.
i had thought of filming an electronic stopwatch...one that has millisecond breakdowns and then comparing the footage to the actual watch to determine how close the speed dial is.Never did it though.

Anyway you look at it, you dont want to film long scenes because it will never work...you'll have to break it up.Shorter takes strung together.

Thought of renting a camera for your heavy dialog shoots?
it might not be that expensive.If you're buying film you're already getting into some $.Try to find some deals on recans and save yourself some money to rent a cam for a few days.

Be sure to read the manual on the camera before you rent it and give yourself some time to learn to load it.

If your destination is video, I've seen the dvx 100 go for as little as $170 per day.
16mm is a little more depending how nice a package you want.
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#6 Last Pistolero

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 10:36 AM

I'm also interested in the reliability of the K3's clockwork motor.

I just bought a K3 as my first film camera, and am planning on the teaching myself the black art of cinematography with plenty of book learning and trail and error.

All of my current short film ideas involve none or little dialogue - I have a thing for silent cinema - so sync-ing my K3 wont be an issue for awhile. I would however like to get some opinions on how effective the camera's clockwork motor is.

How much does the fps vary? And is the speed dail as inacurate and loose as some say?

Additionally when I do decide to film dialogue, how hard it is to get - and apply - the crystal sync motor for the K3? (which I've also read is no longer available for sale...)


Cheers.
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