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#1 John Tischler

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 08:49 PM

Hi,

I recently picked up a CP-16 and a CP-16R. How can I tell if they have been converted to Super? I have no idea what to check.

Thanks!

John
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#2 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 10:43 PM

Standard 16mm has a 1.33:1 aspect ratio frame. So the gate will look almost square.

Super 16mm has a 1.67:1 aspect ratio frame. So the gate will look rectangular.
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#3 John Tischler

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 04:01 AM

Would the camera also have two sets of sprockets, one on each side for the film, or would both versions have just one row of sprockets?
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#4 Giray Izcan

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 06:04 AM

One row of sprockets in both formats.
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#5 Mark Dunn

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 06:22 AM

Would the camera also have two sets of sprockets, one on each side for the film, or would both versions have just one row of sprockets?

The S16 frame intruded into the sprocket area, so precluded the use of double-perf.


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#6 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 06:36 AM

Since the CP16 was originally designed for single system sound, there would only be a single row on the sprockets.


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#7 Mark Dunn

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 09:19 AM

I was under the impression that 16mm. cameras dispensed with the double-perf sprocket in the 1950s.


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#8 Pavan Deep

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 10:05 AM

I think that's true, but I think high speed cameras still used double perf film.

 

Pav


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#9 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 10:45 AM

Very, very, very high speed cameras, like 500+ FPS use a big drum and that requires double perf.
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#10 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 10:49 AM

Would the camera also have two sets of sprockets, one on each side for the film, or would both versions have just one row of sprockets?


Not necessarily. Because the CP16 was designed specifically for "quiet" operation which includes sound on film, it was a single perf camera from the very beginning.

Where it's true, single perf is required for super 16, it's only one of two things to look at when determining frame size. The gate size is an instant give away.
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#11 Mark Dunn

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 11:15 AM

Very, very, very high speed cameras, like 500+ FPS use a big drum and that requires double perf.

 I worked in high-speed ciné. I was trying not to confuse the OP.

FYI speeds up to 500pps are usually referred to as 'medium-speed' and most of those cameras use a conventional sprocket and intermittent movement. Perhaps you're thinking of the rotating-prism cameras such as the Fastax 2 and E10 in the 10,000pps range.

Drum cameras are something else altogether. They used stationary film, a lens array and an air-powered spinning mirror to get rates in the million-pps range.

(PPS, pictures per second, not FPS because one could use half-or quarter-height frames to get a higher effective rate).


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#12 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 11:16 AM

Double perf film is near-impossible to come by these days. It's a special order from Kodak and there is a minimum. 


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#13 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 11:35 AM

I worked in high-speed ciné. I was trying not to confuse the OP.
FYI speeds up to 500pps are usually referred to as 'medium-speed' and most of those cameras use a conventional sprocket and intermittent movement. Perhaps you're thinking of the rotating-prism cameras such as the Fastax 2 and E10 in the 10,000pps range.
Drum cameras are something else altogether. They used stationary film, a lens array and an air-powered spinning mirror to get rates in the million-pps range.
(PPS, pictures per second, not FPS because one could use half-or quarter-height frames to get a higher effective rate).


Right, I thought 500+ as in (more then 500) would be drum cameras. I didn't know a typical 16mm movement could shuttle 500FPS without destroying the film. I thought they were capped at around 200 ish.
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#14 Jesse Andrewartha

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 03:14 PM

Off topic, but on the subject of high speed cameras:

 

I've run cameras like the Hycam at frame rates up to 9,000 frames per second... 100ft of film runs through the camera in less than a second and the last 10-15 feet simply shatters. But you set the camera to trigger at specific points in the film, so you allow at least 30-40 feet for speedup and typically the event you're capturing occurs within 10-20 feet, so the last 10-15ft are unnecessary anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

Right, I thought 500+ as in (more then 500) would be drum cameras. I didn't know a typical 16mm movement could shuttle 500FPS without destroying the film. I thought they were capped at around 200 ish.


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#15 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 03:38 PM

Just saw a sweet little video on youtube of someone setting up their Hycam and running at 1000fps,  swinging an axe through a bottle of wine...

https://www.youtube....h?v=FXRMxk34j1U


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#16 Alessandro Malfatti

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 02:03 PM

I own a 16mm copy of a german educational film from the late 1930's on silent 16mm which shows a hummingbird in slow motion, it says it was shot at 400 fps. The image has pulsating focus and is shakey as hell, but it's impressive nontheless. Wouldn't know what kind of camera they shot it with, but I believe these pictures were shot on 16mm.


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#17 Philip Kral

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 11:55 PM

I know i'm late to this party, but if i'm correct- all CP16's where regular 16 with single sprocket since their original intention was for news camera work that utilized single system soundtrack. Which means the soundtrack portion had to be free in all models.

 

As for conversions, I've been told it's almost impossible since the shutter had to be "extended" to cover the super16 from on top of the gate and mounting to be modified. Although, i've been told they solved the mount location problem by slightly realigning the guts of the camera to cover it. The shutter would have to be custom made. At least this was what I was told when I had mine converted to Ultra 16. Super16 models exist, but they're somewhat rare and expensive to have the conversion done.

 

Otherwise, as others have already said above, the easy way to identify it as a super 16 camera is that the gate has more of a "widescreen" look to it.


Edited by Philip Kral, 28 October 2016 - 11:56 PM.

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