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I CANT DECIDE!!!


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#1 thetony

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 06:57 PM

i am in a deadlock right now. Price doesnt matter. i just cant decide which one to choose. i am going to make short films and both have many features i want. i just want everyone's opinions on which one should be chosen and why, what do you like about one and not about the other.
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#2 drew_town

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 06:12 PM

There have been a lot of comparisons here at this site about these two cameras. All the pros and cons of each have been listed in other threads. I would search for them using the search engine. You could probably find out anything you would want to know about either camera.

My own personal preference would be the Canon XL2 because I like the way Canon's footage looks over Panasonic's. I think the XL cameras are laid out very well and find shooting with them to be quite easy and comfortable.

People will tell you all about resolution and framerate, but what I would suggest would be to shoot with each camera. Find or rent one for a day and try it out. Then decide.

You need to also consider the accessories you will need for each camera. There are a few really good lens options for the XL2.
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#3 Brian Wells

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 11:16 PM

The 'spec' I would consider is ASA rating. The Panasonic is two stops faster than Canon and requires less light to capture great images. Panasonic is the sharpest in 4:3; Canon is the sharpest in 16:9.

Short of having your hands on both cameras, this 3-way camera test can be quite helpful:
http://www.dvxuser.c...rticles/shoot3/

Hope this helps! Good luck.
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#4 Shawn Mielke

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 03:45 AM

Price being no object, the Canon gives you high res 16:9, the option to use a good manual lense, or two or three, plus a lengthy optical zoom. Sounds good to me.
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#5 Jay Gladwell

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 09:36 AM

If you're going to shoot short narrative films, then low light levels have little or nothing to do with it, unless you want your film to look like a "home movie." The trick to getting the best image is to light it properly, just like the "big boys" in Hollywood do. It's a matter of control, and when you're totally at the mercy of available light, you have little or no control.

On the other hand, if you're shooting mostly wedding videos in available light, then you may want to take the camera's light sensitivity into consideration.

Bottom line? I'd go with the XL2. It offers far more options than any other camera out there in its class. More options = more control = better quality images.

Jay

Edited by Jay Gladwell, 17 June 2005 - 09:41 AM.

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#6 thetony

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 12:19 AM

i just finished reading the last posts and the three way review. And i now believe i am leaning towards the dvx but still there are many people who prefer the xl2 over it. i need the camera to handle well in a lowlit street, or room, as well as giving me great image quality in well lit areas as well.
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#7 thetony

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 12:20 AM

so far thank you for all of your help.
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#8 J. Lamar King

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 03:51 AM

I still kinda prefer the look of the DVX-100 over the XL-2. I messed with the XL-2 menus for a few hours trying to make it look like a DVX and I could do it. So maybe it's a crapshoot, and you should just look at the money involved. If I was going to use it with the Mini-35 a lot I would go XL-2 for sure because I think the setup is better.
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#9 will

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 08:11 AM

some guy shot this with an xl2 and mini-35. the thread is on dvinfo.

Example


thread
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#10 Rik Andino

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 09:33 PM

I just read the three-camera review.
And I'm kinda surprised to hear the DVX100a footage looks better than the XL2.

From my point of view I always felt that the XL2 footage looked better
It has more contrast and better latitude...but that's just my eye.

Either camera you get is very good...
Under the hands and eyes of a talented filmmakers you can make excellent work.
Remember it's more about the skill not about the tools.
I've done excellent work with both cameras.

I would choose the XL2 for one reason alone
It shoots great 16x9 footage...and it's very simple to do.

With the DVX100a it's still abit of a hassle to shoot 16x9
With squeeze mode you lose image quality...
the anamorphic adapter is a hassle...
And cropping it makes you lose resolution.

Anyways go for the one that best suits your needs


Good Luck
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#11 DirtFarm

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 12:24 AM

if 16:9 is important, have you thought about an anamorphic lens for the dvx?
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#12 Eric Brown

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 11:50 AM

Hello.

Have to admit that the 3-way comparison at DVXuser is a bit biased. Not to say that they are being dishonest about the Canon. It's just that different people have different expectations of what they think their "ideal" camera should be.
When peole say the Panasonic delivers a better image they say so in regards to the "filmic" look of the footage. Canon delivers higher resolution footage. It depends on what your definition of quality is.
Most of what the DVX offers them is geared towards their needs. It doesn't make it a better camera than the XL2 by any stretch.
The strong points of each camera, summing them up quickly, are:

DVX100A: 1)Looks a little less "videoy" than the XL2 out of the box. Though, with careful tweaking, the XL2 is right on its heels.
2) Actual numeric assignments to controls instead of the XL2's "sliders"
3)Lighter, and therefore easier to manage in the field.
4) better low light capabilities by a few stops (I think)


XL2: 1) Better zoom. This has advantages for both the Videographer (which are obvious) and the filmmaker. The 20x allows for greater shallow DOF than the Panasonic.
2) True 16:9. (DVX 16:9 is a "squeeze" that compromises resolution) If you're doing a film out, the XL2 delivers much higher resolution in this mode. (the DVX has higher res by a slight bit in 4:3 mode) A comparison to the DVX was written about in American Cinematographer about this and they rated the XL2 higher in image quality than the DVX on a film-out.
3) Interchangeable lenses.
4) LANC capable. The DVX will not accept Varizoom type controls.

Also, keep in my mind that I think the XL2 suits my needs better. So I am as biased as the DVX users are about their camera.
But I have laid out the facts. And the facts are they are both great cameras.
Hope this helps.

Edited by Eric Brown, 08 August 2005 - 11:52 AM.

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#13 Jan Crittenden

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 09:36 AM

 
4) LANC capable.  The DVX will not accept Varizoom type controls.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The DVX does indeed work with the VariZoom Controls. We in fact sell them. Additionally there are 5 films in the market right now that have be done with the DVX and all have gotten great reviews. Murderball, November, 9 Songs, Mad Hot Ballroom and Rock School.

Hope this helps,

Jan
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#14 Eric Brown

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 11:37 PM

The DVX does indeed work with the VariZoom Controls.  We in fact sell them. Additionally there are 5 films in the market right now that have be done with the DVX and all have gotten great reviews.  Murderball, November, 9 Songs, Mad Hot Ballroom and Rock School.

Hope this helps,

Jan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>




Jan

Right you are. Thanks for the correction. I think my train of thought was going someplace else entirely due to an earlier Varizoom/DVX issue I had some time ago(gotta proof read these posts).
But I must add, those movies were good because talented filmakers were behind them. Cameras don't make great films. People do.
Anyone one of those directors, if given a Sony, JVC, Canon, ARRI etc...would have made just as nice a film.
The Panasonic is chosen because, above all the others, it does come closer to emulating a film asthetic then any other current pro-sumer offering.
I like both cameras (DVX/XL2) because of the great footage they produce but don't particularly place any special value on the Panasonic because it looks less like video than the Canon.
I just happen to like the wide-arrangement of lens choices I can get with my adapter and the XL2, but some people may place no special value on that.
Once again, what really matters most is "thetonys" skills as a filmmaker and how he will use them utilizing whatever tools he chooses to employ.

Edited by Eric Brown, 10 August 2005 - 11:38 PM.

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#15 Jay Gladwell

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 10:47 AM

Take a look at this.

It's the link that says "Watch the XL2 Feature Tour Video" near the top of this page: www.dvcreators.net

Jay
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#16 Jeremy Ordan

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 11:58 PM

Hello all...

My first post here, but I figured I should go ahead and chime in.

I have been in the same situation in the past as you when trying to choose between a camera and which system is going to best suit my needs. Without coming across like a jerk, here are a couple of things that I think you should know. (To qualify, I am a DVX owner who moved from the XL1 [still have two of them] to the DVX [only have 1 so far])

Low Light - A complete non issue. If you do not light your scene correctly it will look like garbage, pure and simple.

16:9 - I'm a DVX user, so obviously I am biased in this regard. You need to look at each project as an individual element and decide what is going to work best for your needs. If you decide to use a DVX there are several methods that you can use to follow through with to uprez your DVX squeeze footage. Personally I shoot in letterbox for all of my projects or just straight 4:3 and letterbox in post. It comes down to personal preference. Once again, I consider this a mute point.

Interchangable Lense - I don't want to offend any XL users, but this is also a non issue. You mentioned price doesn't matter, but go to any of the big retailers and price out the lenses for the XL2. They are extremely expensive. The odds of ever getting and using another lense is very small. I guarantee you that 95% of XL owners never purchased or used another lense.

Handling - The XL series has a learning curve. It's handling is weird initially, but grows on you. The DVX has a much lower learning curve, I find it to be extremely intuitive.

Picture - This is where people normally disagree with me, but in general I find that the image from the DVX is much more suited for the scripted indie look where the XL is much more suited for the documentary look. I can defend this position more, and both can replicate either image, it just comes down to tweeking.

Cost - To say that cost doesn't matter, well... either you're very well off or just... I don't know. Cost is always an issue. If cost is not an issue look at some of the $50,000 units. The DVX delivers more than the XL2 out of the box for more than $1000 less. If cost isn't an issue, then get the DVX and the anamorphic adapter and you still have a few hundred to invest into a tripod.

Support - Obviously you have explored DVXuser. I find that the DVX has the largest and most open support network available. This is a great asset.

24p - They tie in this regard. It is this simple. Either camera will shoot 24p which is the most important aspect of these units. The moment you see your footage in 24p you will never understand why you used anything else in the past. It is this simple.

My opinion, I recommend the DVX. I am biased, but still... Look at everything you will need to get. Camera ($3400-$4400), Tripod ($450-$1200), Microphones, Shockmount, Boom, Cables, Windscreen, Fur, Blimp ($1000-$4000), Lights ($25-$10,000). I am forgetting a lot, but money matters.

Just my opinion.
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#17 Jay Gladwell

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 01:56 PM

I guarantee you that 95% of XL owners never purchased or used another lense.

Jeremy, excuse me for being so blunt, but you don't know what you're talking about. Making such brash statements without any knowledge or information to back it up is completely absurd. It's statements like this that ruin your credibility.

The XL series has a learning curve.

As does most professional equipment.

It's handling is weird initially, but grows on you.

It didn't seem weird to me and I've been in this business for over 35 years.

The DVX has a much lower learning curve, I find it to be extremely intuitive.

As are most point and shot cameras.

The DVX delivers more than the XL2 out of the box for more than $1000 less.

See above statement. Yes, the XL2 has a flexibility like few other cameras, especially the DVX. This flexibility does require some thought and practice to master, as does any real tool. So in this regard, you're correct. If one is too lazy and/or uninterested in learning how to use a fine tool like the XL2, then by all means, get something else, like the DVX.

You're saving grace was that you did, finally, state that your opinion was biased.

Jay
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#18 Eric Brown

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 10:39 PM

Jeremy, excuse me for being so blunt, but you don't know what you're talking about.  Making such brash statements without any knowledge or information to back it up is completely absurd.  It's statements like this that ruin your credibility.
As does most professional equipment.
It didn't seem weird to me and I've been in this business for over 35 years.
As are most point and shot cameras.
See above statement.  Yes, the XL2 has a flexibility like few other cameras, especially the DVX.  This flexibility does require some thought and practice to master, as does any real tool.  So in this regard, you're correct.  If one is too lazy and/or uninterested in learning how to use a fine tool like the XL2, then by all means, get something else, like the DVX.

You're saving grace was that you did, finally, state that your opinion was biased.

Jay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Jay, couldn't have said it better myself. Many people buy the XL2 because, like myself, they want to be able to switch out lenses. And with the EF adapter the choices become even greater. This isn't to bash the Panasonic as I think it is a very good camera, but I prefer my XL2 over it.

Edited by Eric Brown, 16 August 2005 - 10:45 PM.

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#19 Michael King

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 12:28 AM

I'm am looking at both fine cameras and read the review comparison mentioned before. It looked a bit biased toward the DVX, but then I saw those picture comparisons. I was blown away by the XL2. It looks so much better to me. Is there any real comparison there?
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#20 Jay Gladwell

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 09:42 AM

Mike, it depends on you, the camera operator, as much or more than it does the camera. It depends on what your needs are and what you're willing to do or not do. If you want good basic (point-and-shoot-out-of-the-box) camera, then DVX is for you. If you want a more versatile camera with an open architecture, if you want to learn how to control camera/image variables, etc., then the XL2 is for you.
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