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Push Processing for overall texture


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#1 Sanji Robinson

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 06:59 AM

Happy Holidays to you all!

 

I completed a short film that takes at night. Shot on both 200T 5213 and 500T 5219 exposed either normally or slightly underexposed. Format is 35mm anamorphic with very modern clean lenses. I am thinking of push processing every single roll by 1 stop to introduce more texture and contrast which should work against the cleanliness of the modern lenses.

 

Do you think its a good idea? Will I have issues with continuity in terms contrast or milky blacks?


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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 11:59 AM

"La La Land" did the same thing... with the larger negative area of 4-perf 35mm anamorphic combined with the fine grain of Vision-3 stocks, a one-stop push should be fine.  Milkiness is more an issue of density, you don't get much increase in base fog with a one-stop push, though this implies starting out with fresh stock that doesn't already have some build up in fog.  My suggestion would be to rate the film slower than what the push amount is -- in other words, push by one stop but don't underexpose by one stop, maybe underexpose by 2/3's of a stop or less.


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#3 Sanji Robinson

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 02:23 PM

David, but do you think its an idea worth pursuing? In other words, would you have done the same if you thought the lenses were too clean (Zeiss Master Anamorphics)?

Would half a stop be safer or not push none at all?

 

We're finishing both digitally and on film.


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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:28 PM

Pushing generally comes in one-stop increments at the labs -- besides, a 1/2-stop push is a bit wimpy.  You're better off modifying the grain increase by exposure, i.e. push one-stop but only underexpose by 2/3, 1/3, or by none to compensate.  

 

You'd be surprised at how well a 4-perf 35mm anamorphic image handles a one-stop push as long as you are consistent with your exposures.  Besides, your project takes place at night and anamorphic lenses are not that fast, so I'm sure it would be helpful to have an effective 640 or 800 ISO, for example.  You'll mainly see a mild increase in contrast which you might need to compensate for in lighting.

 

Look at what Dante Spinotti did on "Red Dragon", a two-stop push on 35mm anamorphic but he didn't rate the 500T stock at 2000 ISO, he rated it at something like 1280 ISO so he had some extra density on the negative.

 

The main thing is to be consistent and accurate with your exposures, hence why a lower rating than what the push tells you to use gives you a safety margin.

 

It's a short film, so be bold!

 

And when in doubt, shoot a test.


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#5 Sanji Robinson

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:30 PM

"La La Land" did the same thing... with the larger negative area of 4-perf 35mm anamorphic combined with the fine grain of Vision-3 stocks, a one-stop push should be fine. 

 

It looks like that isn't the case. They actually pulled the film?

 

From the Jan 2017 issue of American Cinematographer:

 

Sandgren shot mostly on Kodak Vision3 500T 5219 negative — includ- ing all night scenes — and on 250D 5207 for the few midday exteriors. They tested pushing, pulling and normal processing, and ultimately decided on pulling for finer grain. Having rated the 500T stock at E.I. 200 and the 250D stock at E.I. 100, Sandgren overexposed by 11⁄3 stop, and then FotoKem in Burbank pull-processed all footage by one stop. 

 

EFilm dailies colorist Matt Wallace seem to disagree with American Cinematographer. In a interview with ICG magazine he says:

 

The one-stop push [Sandgren] did on the negative provided built-in texture and made the highlights have a kind of creamy, organic look,” he continues. “So I approached this more the way a [film] timer would than a colorist.

Source: http://www.icgmagazi...web/breathless/


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#6 Drew Bienemann

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:07 AM

I shot some stuff on 5219 with a 2 stop push you should check out, but it was 2-perf. Check it out:
http://www.cinematog...showtopic=72131
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#7 Sanji Robinson

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 02:43 AM

I am puzzled. From the trailer, the film has a "texture"and looks kinda grainy. But its a big super anamorphic neg and has been pull processed?

 

Even if the film was underexposed, by brightening the image in post you would you get noise and not grain?


Edited by Sanji Robinson, 12 January 2017 - 02:44 AM.

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