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"New" 64T Super-8 film.


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#1 Michael Ahumada

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 06:53 PM

Does anyone on this board have any experience shooting with the 35mm slide film 64T?
I'm just curious as to how it holds-up in daylight with an 85b filter. :)
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#2 Filip Plesha

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 07:57 PM

not in daylight, only with tungsten light.


When it comes to slide photography it is pretty useless to use this film filtered for daylight (there are other better choices for daylight). Some use it for night photography unfiltered, but I haven't tried it at night personally
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#3 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 12:05 AM

not in daylight, only with tungsten light.
When it comes to slide photography it is pretty useless to use this film filtered for daylight (there are other better choices for daylight). Some use it for night photography unfiltered, but I haven't tried it at night personally

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Filip, you crack me up. You've made two casual, yet confident statements that have earthshaking consequences for others if they are true.
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#4 Filip Plesha

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 09:18 AM

two? Which is the other one?
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#5 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 12:54 PM

KODAK EKTACHROME 64T Professional Film (EPY) technical data:

http://www.kodak.com...5.30.14.3&lc=en
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 01:02 PM

Remember that being an "older" emulsion design doesn't necessarily mean it is grainy when you are talking about the really slow-speed stocks.

K40 is not a modern emulsion design either, nor is EXR 50D color negative. At that grain size, you can't really make the grains much smaller even with modern technology, which is why even with the new Vision-2 line, most of the improvement was seen in the fastest stocks, whereas the improvement was pretty subtle in the slower stocks -- there was less room for improvement.

The thing about E64T is that it is not a super snappy, high-saturation stock like E100D. The three tungsten-balanced Ektachrome stocks, 64T, 160T, and 320T, were all designed for shooting on sets lit with tungsten lamps and have a more natural contrast and color response, and being less contrasty, they are not as sharp and saturated as other Ektachrome daylight stocks -- while this may be a disappointment compared to the slightly bolder K40, it may actually be a slight improvement for video transfers, not being so contrasty. Hopefully Kodak will also put out E100D for people who want that "poppy" look.
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#7 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 01:20 PM

two? Which is the other one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The other comment you made that was stated in a casual manner but really is very controversial was that 50 ASA and 100 ASA negative super-8 stocks would be less grainy than the Ektachrome 64 which is to be released soon.
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#8 Filip Plesha

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 01:34 PM

Here is some data missing from the Kodak data sheet:

resolving power at 1000:1 contrast is 125lpmm, and at normal contrast is 50lpmm

Grain is RMS 11 at 1.0 density


David, 64T is sharp enough film, but the grain is too much for its speed.

Just for comparison here are some brand new films and their RMS granularity values.

Astia is the finest grain slide film, at RMS 7
Ektachrome films (E100G, E100GX, Elite chrome 100) are RMS 8

These are all 100ISO films and are faster than 64T

Ektachrome E200 has grain RMS 12, which is similar grain to 64T

With todays finest technology a 64ISO film would probably be at RMS 6, and not 11 as 64T

In slide work, this is not such an issue, you can live with RMS 11, it is not that bad, at least not for a 100+ ISO film. But it might be a problem in 8mm.
Well time will tell.

I don't want to make the wrong impression here, I love 64T for myself, but I'm just not sure how good would it be with 8mm.
If Kodak used ome of its latest E100G or GX films, the grain would be as fine or finer than Kodachrome was.
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#9 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 01:42 PM

A daylight balance film of a given EI will generally have finer grain than its tungsten balance counterpart having the same EI. That's because a tungsten balance film needs a faster blue sensitive layer, which requires larger grains.

For example, better to use Kodak VISION2 250D Color Negative Film 7205 for daylight than to use Kodak VISION2 500T Color Negative Film 7218 with an 85 filter (the faster blue speed of 7218 is negated by the 2/3 stop filter factor of the 85 filter).
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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 02:00 PM

What is the RMS for K40? Isn't it around 9?
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#11 Filip Plesha

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 02:16 PM

Kodachrome is a compleatly different story. It measures higher RMS, but due to its different nature of forming color images on film it looks finer grained.

For example, you can project side by side KR 64 and E100G and they will have similar looking grain size and contrast to the naked eye, but their measures are totally different. RMS of KR 64 is 12 RMS I believe, yet when projected it looks like it is closer to 8 RMS. KR 25 has RMS 11 (just like 64T) but when you compare the two in projection, Kr 25 looks almost grainles.

Don't really know why is that so. But it must be connected with the reason why often grain does not appear in 4000dpi scans of Kodachrome.

Usually RMS is a good quick reference of grain structure for E-6 films, but it is a bit misleading when it comes to Kodachrome film.

Edited by Filip Plesha, 20 June 2005 - 02:18 PM.

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#12 Chris Cottrill

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 08:39 AM

I just shot a roll of 35mm 64T to see how it would look. My camera was set for 50 ASA so as to simulate a Super-8 camera's 40 ASA rating. I also used an 85A filter to match the built-in Super-8 camera filter. The entire roll was shot in daylight.

I can't tell how the grain will look when I am projecting the slide on a five foot wide screen, because this is 35mm after all. But I purposely shot objects with very bright colors, such as children's playground equipment, and the bright colors came through magnificently. Based on this simple test, I think the Super-8 version looks promising.
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#13 Michael Ahumada

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 04:49 PM

Thank you everyone for your responses and information. I can't wait to try-out the stock myself. I only wish Kodak would produce a Super-8 version of ES100D. I've used this film in 35mm still photography, and talk about SATURATION!!!

Michael.
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#14 Cohen Phillips

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 12:19 AM

Keep us updated on this Chris! I would love to see some of the shots you took. As I'm sure others would as well. :)

I just shot a roll of 35mm 64T to see how it would look.  My camera was set for 50 ASA so as to simulate a Super-8 camera's 40 ASA rating.  I also used an 85A filter to match the built-in Super-8 camera filter.  The entire roll was shot in daylight.

I can't tell how the grain will look when I am projecting the slide on a five foot wide screen, because this is 35mm after all.  But I purposely shot objects with very bright colors, such as children's playground equipment, and the bright colors came through magnificently.  Based on this simple test, I think the Super-8 version looks promising.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


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#15 Filip Plesha

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 08:05 AM

Thank you everyone for your responses and information. I can't wait to try-out the stock myself. I only wish Kodak would produce a Super-8 version of ES100D. I've used this film in 35mm still photography, and talk about SATURATION!!!

Michael.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



ES100D? Don't you mean E100S?

If that is the case, then you will find E100VS and EBX even more saturated.
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#16 Cohen Phillips

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 02:16 AM

Thought I'd speard the word with this bit of info...I was just at Dwayne's site and opened up there order form. It's been UPDATED! They have the 64T listed for a processing price of $9.00!!! Next Day shipment on that as well. So at least that answers the question that what the processing will cost. At least it's the same price as K40 was. They also have 64T stock listed but the price is marked N/A for now. So we'll have to keep checking on that. ;)

Hope this is "new" news for some, if not I'm sorry. At least I didn't start a new topic! LOL :D
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#17 Raffinator

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Posted 16 July 2005 - 04:02 PM

They have the 64T listed for a processing price of $9.00!!! Next Day shipment on that as well. So at least that answers the question that what the processing will cost. At least it's the same price as K40 was.

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I can get K40 processed at CALA foods (Supermarket) in San Francisco for about $4 bucks a roll (not including tax).

Raffi
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#18 Robert Hughes

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Posted 17 July 2005 - 10:00 AM

"I can get K40 processed at CALA foods (Supermarket) in San Francisco for about $4 bucks a roll (not including tax)."

... and goes from there to Dwayne's Photo for processing at a bulk discount rate. Possibly you can find someone in the photo dept. at CALA Foods to accept E6 processing for the same price, provided they make the appropriate contractual arrangements with Dwayne's.
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