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Undercranking in camera or post


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#1 Pete Raynell

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:19 AM

Hi all, I have a shoot coming up and was having a discussion with the director today who asked if we could shoot under cranked for a few scenes at 23fps for a 25fps delivery. I suggested shooting at 25fps and then speeding up in post as he could make the decision then and still have the 25fps option if he wished.

 

He said he would rather do it in camera as the post option tended to cause what he called "frame blending"

 

I'm happy to shoot under cranked in camera (Alexa SXT), but I started to wonder about his comment.. 

 

I can not see any reason why adding the speed change in post would cause any problems as you are just removing some progressive frames?

 

Am I incorrect in thinking this?

 

Cheers,

 

Pete.


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#2 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:25 AM

He might be referring to an editing software's automatic re-sampling, which can happen if the timeline's frame rate is different from the media's frame rate. This can be turned off to avoid "frame blending" or "ghost frames" etc.

 

Not sure which software you use, but I personally only know how to fix it in Vegas Pro. I'm sure it's easy in any other multi-layer NLE too.

 

So I would side with you, have two options instead of one.


Edited by Macks Fiiod, 14 February 2017 - 07:26 AM.

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#3 Pete Raynell

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:28 AM

Yes I made this point to him as I know it's a feature that can be turned on and off in premier pro. But he seemed to think it was not the case. 

He might be referring to an editing software's automatic re-sampling, which can happen if the timeline's frame rate is different from the media's frame rate. This can be turned off to avoid "frame blending" or "ghost frames" etc.

 

Not sure which software you use, but I personally only know how to fix it in Vegas Pro. I'm sure it's easy in any other multi-layer NLE too.

 

So I would side with you, have two options instead of one.


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#4 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 08:23 AM

would you see any discernible difference shooting 23p for a 25p time line.. ? dont know just asking.. seem so close to be considered under cranking ..? sorry its if a stupid question ;)


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#5 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 08:27 AM

And by 23 do you mean 23.976? Cause I don't hear of 23 flat too often.

If my first question is correct then I'm having trouble seeing the difference of 1 frame as well.


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#6 J. Winfield Heckert

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:33 AM

I shoot action Scenes at 21FPS. It Speeds things up a tad. Like what might be a light slap across the face at 24FPS looks downright violent at 21FPS. You cant really get the same effect in post, you can't just cut frames out it will look jerky so there has to be some frame blending retiming one way or another. 


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#7 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:14 PM

Well one could argue if you shoot in 30 and go down to 21, you could manually select the frames of the slap and take the role of sort of a live action animator. Perhaps giving even more control. I've done it myself many times.


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#8 Pete Raynell

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:22 AM

It's quite a subtle effect, but you can see an example here shot at 23fps, where the fish lands in the boat, it's been used mainly for comedic purposes.

 



We have done some camera tests today and in camera looks more natural than speeding up in post, I can't really say why.. it just does, so I think ill stick with the in camera plan, the advantage obviously of speeding up later is the 25fps option is there in post if required.

 

In terms of keeping my exposure consistent switching between 23 and 25fps I think ill just adjust the iris slightly.

 


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