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Camera auto-exposure vs. 500T


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#1 Erik Hammen

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 04:38 PM

Hi folks, rewording a previous question -- I've got a camera that does not have manual exposure. How will it respond to 500 T? Is there a way to get the autoexposure to recognize the correct exposure and/or compensate?
I've previously only used TriX with this camera, with no problems.
thanks much!!
EH

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#2 Martin Baumgarten

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 04:55 PM

Hi, you didn't provide us with the make and model of your Super 8mm camera.   Most of the Super 8mm cameras that were made usually only were set for the Filmspeeds of ISO 40 and ISO 160 (and the Daylight ratings via the Builtin 85 filter of ISO 25 and ISO 100).  Thus, your camera cannot read the ISO/ASA 500 rating and will default to the ISO 160 rating.  Depending on the lighting situation, you can still use the camera with the ISO 500 film.   Taking into account the Shutter speed per frame at your running speed (18 or 24 etc) and whatever your maximum lens aperture is, and the size of your zoom lens (to figure out the light loss factor to determine the actual working aperture working value of incoming light), you can use an external hand held light meter and figure out pretty well if the film will capture usable images in various low level light situtions. 

 

If for example, you are shooting at 18fps, and based on your camera's shutter design the exposure is 1/40th per second, and your lens is an F/1.8 aperture, and you have an 8:1 zoom lens (which coupled with the viewfinder prism will rob about 1/2 Stop of light at least, then figure 1/40th second shutterspeed at F/2.8 to program into your hand held light meter.  Without knowing exactly what camera it is, we can't help you further than this example.  Suffice to say, even with the most basic Super 8mm cameras, using ISO 500 film in many low light situations will still result in decent images (deep black regions and bright washout situations notwithstanding of course).


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#3 Chris Burke

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 04:58 PM

What kind of camera?? Check out Super 8 wiki for info on your camera. Chances are that it might only meter up to 160T, typical for a full autio camera. If so, you know that the camera is metering 1 & 2/3 stops over. So, you can get a better idea as to how to expose from that info. Keep in mind that 7219 has HUGE exposure latitude, so unless you are shooting in bright sunlight (use 50D) you should be all set. 


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#4 Erik Hammen

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 06:00 PM

Hi guys, thanks for the responses! It's a Eumig 125 XL S. Glad to hear it'll work because I'm shooting mostly at night.  

Any guidelines for a sunny/daytime shooting with this camera? there's a backlight button that I think drops me down a stop. Super 8 wikia claims it has a manual exposure option but I sure don't see one, though

Thanks!!

EH

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#5 Chris Burke

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 06:42 AM

It has a 220º shutter so at 24fps, that means 1/39th exposure time. So for sunny daytime, most likely 50d film and ND filters of varying amounts. IF you are stuck with the 500t as your only stock, you will need lots of ND filtration, I would suggest not using the internal filter for Color correction, but rather use a 85/ND9 combo. If you cannot get any filters, this stock over exposed to the extreme has a very impressionistic, surreal quality to it with very course grain. Not sure what you are looking for??? But some people like the extreme look this stock can provide. All in all, it is not for sunny days. 50D is the way to go. Especially with a 220º shutter.


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#6 Erik Hammen

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 01:59 PM

Well, I'm stuck with 500t only for this project - so I guess it's gonna be a ND filter unless it's really cloudy out.

But I'm glad it'll work out either way -- 

 

thanks again for your help!

E


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#7 Martin Baumgarten

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 05:22 PM

If you're shooting at 18fps, then the shutter speed will be lower, closer to 1/30th per second.  Anyhow, a cheap ND filter if you don't have any are dollar store sunglasses.  Get the glass lens versions, a nice dark one and a medium one, pop the lens out and use some good grade electrical tape to put it on your camera lens.  Before you do however, aim either a light meter thru it or another camera (film or digital) and see what the light loss value amount is.  This will help you figure out your exposure.  That "Filter" now coupled with the builtin #85 Filter will drastically cut your light down quite a bit.  I mean, you could put two "filters" on top of each other, just make sure they're real clean of smudge;  you'll be shooting thru an extra layer of course, but this works in a pinch. I know, I have done it many times. I even sometimes just use my own sunglasses to cut light down or for polarization even with whatever camera I have on me, if I don't have filters along.  Use what works. Super 8mm (and Regular 8mm) have been, are, and continue to be great DIY formats for those on low or no budgets.   At least this way, you won't grossly overexpose that 500 speed film.


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#8 Erik Hammen

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:30 PM

Hey, great tips, thanks Martin!

I keep thinking how cool it'd be if someone would invent an iphone app that would use the iphone camera for pre-visualization  -- enter film stock, frame rate, shutter speed, and the phone would meter it and show the approx. results. It wouldn't really show the latitude of the film stock, but it'd be handy for eyeballing existing light and location scouting for sure. 


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#9 Steve Williams

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 03:39 PM

Hey Erik,

 

I've read on here a while back ago of using a DSLR to give you an idea of what you're shooting (lighting wise).  Just match your DSLR to the film speed and shutter speed of your film camera.   Obviously not full proof, but I've done this in the past with pretty decent results.  

Steve


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#10 Erik Hammen

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:59 AM

Hey Steve -- great idea and great timing!

Funny, I'd been thinking about using a DSLR a lot when I was shooting a super 16 project a few years ago, before I owned one, but as soon as I got one for a new project last year I guess I compartmentalized it in my head as one kind of media instead of just another tool...

One of the problems (for me at least) of coming to camera from the art dept instead of tech dept.

Anyway, thanks much for the note!!

Erik


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#11 Chris Burke

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 08:50 AM

The sensitivity of a particular sensor compared to kodak 500t can be quite significant. Enough to make it an inaccurate meter. Even if all setting are the same; iso, shutter angle, f stop. Use a real cine meter.
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