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Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k


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#1 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 04:16 PM

Pretty exciting press conference today about the new Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k.

Blackmagic have listened and have done almost everything their customers have wanted.

Highlights:

-Interchangeable lens mouts
-Broadcast style filter wheel
-Broadcast style direct function controls on side of camera (white balance, gain, shutter, audio, etc)
-Mechanical power button (who woulda thunk)
-Display on side of camera for pertinent info
-4 channels of analog built in audio recording (internal + external XLR + multi-track AES)
-Switcher return feeds and tally light
-C fast, SD card AND SSD recording capability
-Better timecode controls
-Metadata control for PL and EF mount lenses

Unfortunately no mention of the optical low pass filter.. :(

https://www.blackmag...agicursaminipro

 

Price $5999 and the mounts are a few hundred bux each. 

 

controls-lg.jpg?_v=1488425593
 


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#2 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 05:38 PM

Er, yup, that looks like it answers most of the questions.

 

Except the viewfinder lag. That was always the biggest glitch with those.


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#3 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:15 PM

They promise any updates for the URSA 4k sensors?


Edited by Macks Fiiod, 02 March 2017 - 06:16 PM.

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#4 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:20 PM

curious how the colors work out with the purple on this thing and further worry about QC on those ND filters. Still very nice camera.

Also also how easy is it to swap those mounts?
 


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#5 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:34 PM

I'm interested to see how they arrive at the idea that they can capture "more of the visible color spectrum than Rec. 2020," considering that 2020 has monochromatic primaries. You could presumably, and in theory, build something that covered more of CIE 1931 than 2020 does, but I suspect you'd risk limiting the quality of yellow-orange reproduction in pursuit of a bigger triangle.

 

And I suspect you'd struggle very hard to do even that.

 

I suspect what they mean is that it has a 2020 output mode.


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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:45 PM

Rec.2020 covers a huge color gamut, I'm not sure how a camera captures beyond it...


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#7 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:47 PM

The way it's worded is very careful. The camera "features an incredibly wide color gamut that captures more of the visible color spectrum than Rec. 2020".

 

I'd like to know what "features" means.


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#8 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:28 PM

Looks great on a whole bunch of levels. But until they can put a simple bloody OLPF on the sensor (like every other manufacturer out there) it's still a no go for me. 

Aliasing remains a serious issue with every single BM camera I've seen to date, including the 4.6k.


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#9 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:40 PM

Not sure why anyone would buy this camera TBH... for a bit more you can get the fs7 MkII... a much better beast.. 


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#10 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:57 PM

I was thinking about that exact issue.

The FS72 does somewhat more as a camera, but only slightly. Like too many Sony products it is dipped in glue and rolled in buttons. The shoulder rig for the FS7 (I assume it's similar or identical for the 2) is flimsy and unconvincing, at least compared to the massive die castings on the Ursa series. The Ursa viewfinder mount in particular is massively superior. Sony's software is a confusing cascade of menus and reveals gaps in the core software. On the original 7 you still have to reboot to go from 50hz world to 60hz world, meaning the highest frame rates are not immediately available to people in PAL places. It takes expensive, rare media. I assume there's built in prores on the mark 2? Ah.

Tell me if any of this has changed recently.

I shy away from making unqualified statements about gear as the devil is in the details of what you want to do with it. The FS72 does do somewhat more than an Ursa mini (pro). In terms of build, user interface and ergonomics, though, I'm starting to feel like Blackmagic are pulling ahead.

Just that bloody EVF lag...
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#11 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 09:57 PM

Here is a link to my rebuttal, I thought it would be better to put it somewhere else then here.

http://www.cinematog...showtopic=73965
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#12 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 04:30 AM

A link to the press conference video; the camera is introduced at approx 44 minutes.

 


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#13 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 08:22 AM

I was thinking about that exact issue.

The FS72 does somewhat more as a camera, but only slightly. Like too many Sony products it is dipped in glue and rolled in buttons. The shoulder rig for the FS7 (I assume it's similar or identical for the 2) is flimsy and unconvincing, at least compared to the massive die castings on the Ursa series. The Ursa viewfinder mount in particular is massively superior. Sony's software is a confusing cascade of menus and reveals gaps in the core software. On the original 7 you still have to reboot to go from 50hz world to 60hz world, meaning the highest frame rates are not immediately available to people in PAL places. It takes expensive, rare media. I assume there's built in prores on the mark 2? Ah.

Tell me if any of this has changed recently.

I shy away from making unqualified statements about gear as the devil is in the details of what you want to do with it. The FS72 does do somewhat more than an Ursa mini (pro). In terms of build, user interface and ergonomics, though, I'm starting to feel like Blackmagic are pulling ahead.

Just that bloody EVF lag...

 

 

I have an F5.. but the Fs72 has some improvements over the Fs7.. they have fixed the drooping EVF rod.. and have a "PL" style mount.. but locking the other way ..Sony menu,s.. yes weird .. but once you know them easy enough.. and all have User pages..they have re done the arm too..  dont know about the re boot.. (try working with the Varicam LT ..the re boot king !).. the Ursa I saw last year at INTERBEE looked like a cheap toy to me.. the VF was terrible.. and no OLPF.. why not..? seems crazy.. 

Sure nothing perfect .. for around the same price the Fs7 just seems to be a way better deal.. 


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#14 Jay Young

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:18 AM

I don't understand the market they are trying to reach.  I'm shooting at the end of the month for 4 days and I elected to go BlackMagic.  Really I want to see just how far I can push these cameras.  I thought about shooting a feature I have later this year on the URSA's, but it just didn't make sense at the time - Alexa has better color, and everyone is use to that workflow. 

 

I am somewhat disappointed that the big URSA has not gotten any love.  It seems like it would fit in the war for proper cinema camera, but judging by the press release, BMD is making just enough money to make pro-sumers, ENG, and beginner filmmakers happy, but doesn't care to play in the professional field.  Still no OLPF, but some people I have talked to already purchased the PRO model because it has built in ND; they were very happy of the fact they didn't have to carry around a matte box and filters.  With a substantial investment in filters, I'll always have a matte box! 

 

But, I can rent them so cheaply, and they make a pretty image....... 


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#15 Will Montgomery

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 01:39 PM

I did a quick double take on this line:

 

-4 channels of analog built in audio recording (internal + external XLR + multi-track AES)

 

How about a built-in miniature 4 track analog tape deck! I know...it means 4 analog ins, not analog recording.  :) 


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#16 aapo lettinen

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 02:20 PM

I am somewhat disappointed that the big URSA has not gotten any love.  It seems like it would fit in the war for proper cinema camera, but judging by the press release, BMD is making just enough money to make pro-sumers, ENG, and beginner filmmakers happy, but doesn't care to play in the professional field.  Still no OLPF, but some people I have talked to already purchased the PRO model because it has built in ND; they were very happy of the fact they didn't have to carry around a matte box and filters.  With a substantial investment in filters, I'll always have a matte box! 

 

But, I can rent them so cheaply, and they make a pretty image....... 

 

I don't think BMD has ever even targeted the higher end professional field. every aspect of their cameras tells me that they are more interested in low budget and prosume customers and maybe selling a camera or two to high end productions for C unit or D camera or crash cam use. the whole point of their cameras is to have low enough price for indie filmmakers and prosume/low end professional customers who can balance their quirks and live with them if the price point is right. 

 

If one has more money to purchase or rent then there is not many reasons to choose a BMD camera instead of, say, Alexa Mini.  

I haven't seen the Samyang "cine" lenses in professional use either, pro cinematographers tend to use higher end glass because they have the possibility to choose. 

 

I personally haven't bought a Ursa Mini because of the missing OLPF and other reasons. the "pro" update does not change this though it is very nice to be able to change lens mounts without changing the whole sensor package with it (who had that idea in the first place huh, way to sell more sensors maybe  :wacko:  )


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#17 aapo lettinen

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 02:26 PM

 

I don't think BMD has ever even targeted the higher end professional field

just look at that press photo for example. recording the sound straight to the camera in a "high end shoot"  :blink:  never ever seen that done on a pro set, one of the most unpractical things I have seen in those photos so far  :lol:  and no one would do the lighting like that on a commercial shoot I think, maybe they should consult someone experienced before making these ads though they may be great for attracting indie shooters  :lol:

intro-talent.jpg?_v=1460999806


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#18 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 03:02 PM

Ursa I saw last year at INTERBEE looked like a cheap toy to me

 

I really don't understand this constant criticism of the Ursa Mini as being underbuilt or flimsy. It's made out of massive aluminium castings (which is one reason it's no featherweight.) The Sony stuff is clad almost entirely in pieces of injection-moulded plastic and those wobbly plastic buttons and knobs that you know are held in place by nothing more than the pressure of the switch body that's soldered down to the PCB.

 

It doesn't look like a conventional camera, certainly, but that's not actually a criticism. The Ursa Mini is better built than FS7, by far, and I don't think that's opinion, that's pretty objective. It's made out of big slabs of metal.

 

P


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#19 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 03:12 PM

As a filmmaker, not a hired gun... I record sound to my camera almost 90% of the time. It's rare I have the budget to bring in a sound guy. I have wireless mic's, I have great headphones, I even have external audio recorders incase I need more dynamic range. Yet, I always run the composited inputs into my camera so there is a good reference track for editing. I can't stand people who send me stuff with camera mic ref tracks, it takes way too long to sync it to the master files.

The blackmagic advertising is funny... but I understand their products. I've been shooting with the pocket cameras for three years now, it's a perfect camera for me. Almost all of my content is made specifically for web, so the little "issues" the camera has, don't bother me. I don't spend enough time in post to make things perfect anyway.

Sure, if you're a cinematographer, who works on shows with a rental budget, why would you even own gear? The point of the Blackmagic product line is for people who are filmmakers, to own the equipment they need to make product and most of us are one man bands.
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#20 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 04:23 PM

 

I really don't understand this constant criticism of the Ursa Mini as being underbuilt or flimsy. It's made out of massive aluminium castings (which is one reason it's no featherweight.) The Sony stuff is clad almost entirely in pieces of injection-moulded plastic and those wobbly plastic buttons and knobs that you know are held in place by nothing more than the pressure of the switch body that's soldered down to the PCB.

 

It doesn't look like a conventional camera, certainly, but that's not actually a criticism. The Ursa Mini is better built than FS7, by far, and I don't think that's opinion, that's pretty objective. It's made out of big slabs of metal.

 

P

 

 

Fair enough.. I didnt look into the way it was actually built.. maybe its just the design .. but the EVF ..that didnt look well built to me.. and the image was really bad.. I think has tainted my view maybe .. I dont hold the fs7 as the greatest camera.. I dont own one.. the fs2 is alot better.. but as far as what it will do ,for a slightly higher price it seems a better bet ..


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