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E Mount Lens on PL Mount

Canon 18-80 4.4 / Sony 18-110

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#1 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 02:07 AM

Hey Everybody

 

I'm in Preproduction for a documentary Film an we are Looking at different lens Options. The Production Company owns a Sony F55. Since there is a lot of run and gun shooting, I'm looking for a very lightweight zoom leans. 

 

Is there a possibility to mount an E-mount lens, like the Sony 18-110 F4.0 on the PL-mount camera, 

OR is the focal-plane completely different?

 

I didn't find anything on the web. 

 

THX a lot for your Support! 

 

Philipp


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#2 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 03:07 AM

Not possible.. E mount to PL.. unfortunately as all the nice, new, cheap light weight cine style zooms coming out are E mount.. F55 is actually EZ mount ,alot closer .. .but no cigar.. 

 

If they wont go for an Fs7 II.. and you dont want to be changing lenses all day long.. you,ll have to go for the heavy Canon CN7 17-120 or the Fujinon Cabrio 19-90.. or newer less exp Fujinon 20-120mm.. with an easy rig ..  or EF stills zooms and the hassle that goes with that.. personally I think your better off with the cine zooms.. and easy rig..

 

Sigma have 2 light weight .cheap .. cine housing of two of their  ART series stills lenses coming out with PL mount soon ,the E mounts are already out just last week I think..18-35mm and 50-100mm T2.. the 50-100 has alot of breathing unfortunately .. but AFAIK.. they are the only other PL mount cine zooms that would be classed light weight, are fast and cheap.. 

Problem is its more expensive to make PL mount lenses and the Fs7 /7a series has such a huge hold over that market now.. all these new cheap decent cine zooms are being made only with E mount.. (eg the new Fujinon 18-55.. 50-135mm E mount only) except the Canon 18-80..EF of course.. but fly by wire focus and only T4..no one seems to be buying this lens.. if the sigma PL,s come out in time for your shoot could be a solution..


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#3 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 02:32 PM

Sony F3/5/55 cameras are native FZ mount with 19mm FFD. Sony E mount is 18mm FFD. So E mount lenses on an F55 are not possible. PL is 52mm FFD.

I think your options are:

1. Sony FZ lenses - ??
2. Canon EF zooms with an EF to FZ adapter
3. PL zooms with the supplied PL to FZ adapter
4. B4 zooms with a B4 to FZ optical adapter

No idea about the quality of the various B4 adapters, but Sony's adapters are ridiculously expensive. $16K USD for this: https://www.abelcine...ed-Filter-Disc/.

It would probably just be simpler to rent a set of Angenieux Optimo DPs for the project. Or just use Canon L glass if budget is tight.
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#4 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:27 AM

Well - what shall I say

 

What I don't get is the "why" for example Sony and Canon don't offer them with a PL-Mount. As Zeiss with their newest LWZ3 (21-100mm /f2.9 - 3.9 /1,9kg) show, it is possible.

 

Of corse, lens Manufacturer want to protect their more expensive Products, like the CN17-120. But choosing the right lens for the right project, for me it is as important as picking the camera.

I shot my las documentary on the Fujinon Cabrio,  I love it, I know I'm going to shot on this lens again, but this time it is just not the right one the project...

 

Maybe being less afraid of the competition - and believing more in their own products makes them look more professional and attractive. But that's just my opinion...


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#5 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 02:28 PM

What I don't get is the "why" for example Sony and Canon don't offer them with a PL-Mount.


As I'm sure you know, Sony and Canon do already make lenses with PL mounts. Sony has the Cinealta PL primes, and Canon makes a wide range of Compact and Studio PL zooms. As well, their CN-E primes can be converted to PL by Duclos Lenses.

If you're asking why these particular E mount zooms can't be converted to PL, it's all down to budget. Lens design is about making trade-offs. If you want longer flange depth, larger image circle, or brighter aperture, the lens elements need to be bigger which costs more.

Similarly, if you want more clearance between the rear element and the image plane, you need to add a retrofocal (reverse telephoto) lens group at the back of the lens. Which increases complexity and cost. This is why Angenieux's Optimo DP lenses can be made so much cheaper than their regular Optimo counterparts. It's basically the same lens, with the retrofocal elements removed. Of course, this means that the lenses cannot be used on mirror shutter film cameras or the Alexa Studio. But it was almost half the price when introduced, so people who only needed to use them on digital sensor cameras bought them.

The same difference applies here. The reason the E-mount zooms are so affordable is in large part because of the choice to design to a short flange depth. If you want to use them on PL mount, then you need to add complex rear optics. Which is exactly what Matt Duclos is working on right now. But it will probably be as expensive or more expensive than the lens itself. And it will make the lens slower and softer. Again, all because of the physics of light. It is what it is.
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#6 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 09:46 PM

Phil.. I have the answer.. the new Fujinon XK6x20 T3.5.. 20-120 cabrio.. PL mount.. this is less that $14,000 on B&H.. 

 

2.4Kg if you take the servo off.. 

 

As Satsuki says.. they are not trying to protect their high end lenses.. you just cant just take a PL mount off and put on an E mount..if you like the Cabrio,s you would be very disappointed with the likes of the Sony 18-110.. not in the same class at all..   from what I have read the new Fujinon MK E mount only zooms look to be the best around ..for cheap and light weight.. although only the 18-55 is available at the moment but the 50- 135 out soon..

 

I think thats your choice.. PL if you use their camera.. or rent a Fs7 and E mount zooms.. 


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#7 Philipp Kunzli

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:06 AM

If you're asking why these particular E mount zooms can't be converted to PL, it's all down to budget. 

 

Hey Satsuki - Thanks for your E-mail

 

Of corse, I understand the "trade offs" as you call them. Lens manufacturer have always to make compromises and decide where they're going to "place" their lens on the market. And of corse, I'm aware of the physical conditions that "limit" the building of a lens.

 

I just like the philosophy of Zeiss who offer a small, PL zoom lens... which of corse, cost a few thousand more, but still it's cheap and a great deal. And in that thought I'm curious why Sony or Canon don't consider this direction and offer their cheap lens with a PL mount. Even it would cost a few thousand $ more... 


Edited by Philipp Kunzli, 03 April 2017 - 07:07 AM.

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#8 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:15 AM

Market pressures too ... Sony do make "cheap" PL primes and have done for a while now.. they dont make a high end zoom .. .   the 18-110.. just wouldn't sell as a PL mount.. its basically a pro sumer lens.. non par focal .. fly by wire, electronic T4 lens.. it is what it is.. and is aimed at the E mount market.. quite rightly.. very few people would be putting it on a PL mount camera.. same with the canon 18-80 T4.. CN-E..  its not just the mount thats cheap with these lenses..   


Edited by Robin R Probyn, 03 April 2017 - 08:16 AM.

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#9 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 12:43 PM

Philipp,

That's fine if you prefer the Zeiss design choices, but we should acknowledge that they made some trade-offs in their budget zoom lens as well. Their zoom is slow and ramps continuously throughout the focal range, so you will never have a consistent stop when changing focal lengths. For some types of productions, this is a deal-killer.

I just don't think it's fair to say Fujinon is afraid of competition because they decided to make different design choices in their budget lens - it's a $2K USD cine lens! If they were both expensive high-end lenses, then I think it would be a different story. Now we have more choices, which is good.
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