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Is there a beginner stage to using a generator?

HMI Generator Generators beginners m18 m40 gaffing lighting

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#1 Joshua Hesami

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 11:14 PM

Is there way for someone like me to start using a generator so that I might power an M40 or an Arrisun 60?

 

I love the M18 because I allows me to work with a decent amount of light on a very small budget. I've been shooting commercial projects on a thin budget by running with one M18, a few fluorescent fixtures a great deal of light modifiers.

 

In the states, I believe an M18 is about the most powerful light you can run off a house or office circuit. (If there are more powerful options, I'd love to use them)

 

Is the answer as simple as renting or buying a 6500 watt portable generator or is there more to it?


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#2 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 03:26 AM

Yes you can. but you need more than just the basic wattage of the light in order to cover the power surge when striking the HMI, also a flicker free ballast

 

No doubt the gaffers will give a precise figure, but I suspect 9/10kW would cover it. Also, bear mind the noise from the generator.


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#3 JD Hartman

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 05:40 AM

An ARRI M40 will strike and operate reliable on a Honda 6500/7000eu generator.  Use the 220VAC twistlock outlet with a 60A bates adapter. 

 

Don't let anyone plug anything else into the bates since it will be at 240V.

Yes this does happen.


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#4 Guy Holt

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 09:10 AM

Is there way for someone like me to start using a generator so that I might power an M40 or an Arrisun 60?....Is the answer as simple as renting or buying a 6500 watt portable generator or is there more to it?

 

If you want to power non-linear light sources like HMIs, Fluorescents, & LED lights, it matters not only what type of generator you use but also what type of ballasts powers the light. The harmonic noise that non-Power Factor Corrected electronic ballasts draw can have a severe adverse effect on the power waveform of some generators but not others.  

 

I will provide short answers to your questions and for more details on what type of generator to use with HMIs and fluorescent lights use this link for an article I wrote on the use of portable generators in motion picture production.

 

BoxBookLinkGenSetSm.jpg

 

Harry Box, author of “The Set Lighting Technician’s Handbook” has cited my article in the Fourth Edition of the handbook. Here is what he has to say about the article:

 

"Great work!... this is the kind of thing I think very few technician's ever get to see, and as a result many people have absolutely no idea why things stop working."

 

"Following the prescriptions contained in this article enables the operation of bigger lights, or more smaller lights, on portable generators than has ever been possible before."

 

In the states, I believe an M18 is about the most powerful light you can run off a house or office circuit. (If there are more powerful options, I'd love to use them)

 

There are a number of 240 volt outlets in a typical house, office, or industrial plant in this country.  The most common are air conditioner outlets, dryer outlets, range outlets, outlets for large copy machines in offices, and the outlets for motorized equipment in industrial plants.  A full proof way to power large luminaries like 4k HMIs from these circuits is to run them through a 240v-to-120v step down transformer like the 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro we make for the Honda EU6500is and EU7000is generators. Like it does with the 240V output of the Honda Generators, our 60A Transformer/Distro converts the 240 volts supplied by these industrial and household receptacles back to 120 volts in a single circuit that is the sum of the two single phase legs of 30/50 amps each. That is how our 60A Transformer/Distro makes a 60A/120v circuit out of a “30A/240v” and our 100A Transformer/Distro makes 100A/120V circuit out of a “50A/240v” circuit. Our Transformer/Distros can also be used to power multiple 120V luminaries off of 240 Volt circuits because  our Transformer/Distro automatically splits the load of whatever you plug into it evenly over the two legs of the 240V circuit so there is no neutral return. 

 

... you need more than just the basic wattage of the light in order to cover the power surge when striking the HMI, also a flicker free ballast

 

This is a very complicated topic and there is a lot of confusion out there so I suggest you read the article I mention above. M40s and Arrisun 60s use power factor corrected (PFC) electronic ballasts. PFC electronic ballasts do not power surge when striking.  They rather “ramp up” gradually during the striking phase, so you don’t have to leave head room as you would with a magnetic ballast.

 

... also a flicker free ballast

 

 

You don’t need to use flicker free ballasts on the Honda EU6500 or EU7000 generators because they pass the power they generate through an inverter. These generators are rock solid with frequency variances of only hundreths of a cycle. I won’t address the issue of flicker and frame rate/shutter angles because it is well established elsewhere in this forum that there are safe windows that are “flicker free” as long as the power supply is stable. As long as you shoot at one of the many safe frame rates, magnetic ballasts are “flicker free” on the Honda EU6500 or EU7000 generators.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer

ScreenLight & Grip,

Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston


Edited by Guy Holt, 31 March 2017 - 09:23 AM.

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#5 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:32 AM

They also have some Honda for rental with 60A Bates on them already, 120V, in that case you get the genny, say 50' 60A Bates and run that to your m40. Do this all the time on commercials and the llike where it's easier than running distro from a tow-plant. On tow-plants you get into a lot more distro / phase / math stuff.


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#6 Guy Holt

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:41 AM

An ARRI M40 will strike and operate reliable on a Honda 6500/7000eu generator.  Use the 220VAC twistlock outlet with a 60A bates adapter. 

 

Don't let anyone plug anything else into the bates since it will be at 240V.

Yes this does happen.

 

They also have some Honda for rental with 60A Bates on them already, 120V, ...

 

 

Besides eliminating the possibility of  over-volting  120V loads by mistake (yes it does happen) there are benefits to be gained by powering the M40 at 120V through a 240V-to-120V step-down transformer, like our Full Power Transformer/Distros, rather than directly into the 240V twist-lock receptacle on the generator  or from the 60A Bates built into the generators of some rental houses. The 60A Bates receptacles built into rental house generators provide only the 45A for which the power output panel of the  North American models of these generators are rated for continuous loads. Our Transformer/Distros will provide a true 60A/120V circuit when used with one of our modified EU6500 or EU7000 generators.  It accomplishes this by converting the 240-volt output of a Honda EU6500 or EU7000 to 120 volts in a single circuit that is the sum of the two single-phase legs of the generator.  If the generator is one of our modified Honda EU6500 or EU7000, the Transformer/Distro will provide a true 60A/120V circuit from their enhanced 7500W output.

 

Now that you have access to the full power of the generator in one circuit, you can load the generator more fully than you could without a Transformer/Distro. Without a transformer you can never fully utilize the available power of a portable generator because the load of a light has to go on one circuit/leg of the generator or the other. For example, when plugging lights into the power outlet panel of a Honda EU6500is, you reach a point where you can't power an additional 1kw light because there is not 8.4 amps available on either one of the factory installed 20A outlets/leg of the generator. With a Transformer/Distro you can still add that 1kw light because the Transformer/Distro not only accesses power through a higher rated circuit (the enhanced 30A/240V Twistlock), but it also splits the load evenly over the two legs (4.2A/leg) of the generator on that circuit.

 

What's nice about M40 ballasts is that they are auto-sensing multi-volt ballasts.  At 120V the same ballast will operate an M40 and draw 37 Amps, leaving room on the Transformer/Distro derived 120V circuit to power additional lights. Given the enhanced 7500W power output  of our modified EU6500 and EU7000 generators,  you will have 23 Amps left over after powering the M40 to power additional lights. And, if you use only HMI and Kino Flo ballasts with Power Factor Correction you can load our modified Honda EU6500 or EU7000 generators to their full 7500W capacity. Which means that you can effectively power a PFC 1200W HMI (13A) and a PFC 800W Joker (8A) in addition to the 4k because the Transformer/Distro splits the additional load evenly over the two legs of the generator. And, because the Transformer/Distro perfectly balances the load of what ever you plug into it, the generator is capable of handling the larger load more easily because it is perfectly balanced. 

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer

ScreenLight & Grip,

Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston


Edited by Guy Holt, 31 March 2017 - 10:56 AM.

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#7 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:20 AM

Sometimes - very occasionally - I have reason to be smug.

 

044_1008_CR00_4306-D_300x300.jpg

 

13A @ 240V. Twice.


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#8 Guy Holt

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:30 AM

Sometimes - very occasionally - I have reason to be smug.

 

044_1008_CR00_4306-D_300x300.jpg

 

13A @ 240V. Twice.

 

Go ahead and rub it in while you can.  Your spec of an island is soon to be an outcast from the union of Europeans.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer

ScreenLight & Grip,

Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston


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#9 Joshua Hesami

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:42 AM

I always love coming to you guys for help. This is a wealth of information I couldn't easily find.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of people at my stage of dabbling with use of bigger lights or more power. Most everyone I find is using tow-gennys with a crew or sticking to smaller lights and LED fixtures.
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#10 Guy Holt

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 12:27 PM

... There doesn't seem to be a lot of people at my stage of dabbling with use of bigger lights or more power. Most everyone I find is using tow-gennys with a crew or sticking to smaller lights and LED fixtures.

 

That's because distributing power from a generator, even a putt-putt, can be complicated and requires a basic knowledge of electricity.  Using a step-down transformer can greatly simply things. For example, you have to carefully balance your lighting load over the two legs of a portable generator. With our system you don’t have to worry about balancing loads, because our 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro automatically splits the load of whatever you plug into it evenly over the two legs of the 240V circuit of the generator. As long as you plug all your load in through our 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro you don’t have to carefully balance the load over the generator's two 120V circuit/legs because the transformer does it for you automatically.

 

Our 60A Transformer/Distro greatly simplifies electrical distribution because it enables you to use standard film-style distro equipment, like 60A Bates extension cables, 60-to-60 Siamese (splitters), and fused 60A Bates-to-Edison Breakouts (snack boxes), to run power around your set - breaking out to 20A Edison outlets or 60A Bates pockets at convenient points. But no matter how complicated your distro system becomes, with our Transformer/Disto you simply plug in lights until the load wattage displayed on the iMonitor of the generator control panel reaches 7500Watts because no matter where you plug into the distro system the Transformer/Distro automatically balances the additional load, so that you don't have to.  An overload alarm on the iMonitor display will tell you if you inadvertently overload the 60A Transformer/Distro.

 

Another advantage to our 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro is that you don’t have to worry about voltage drop over a long cable run from the generator to set. The Honda EU6500 and EU7000 generators are quiet relative other putt-putts, but you still need to get them far off set to record  sound without picking up generator noise. Over long stinger runs the voltage can drop to the point where HMI ballast won’t strike or will shut off unexpectedly.   To assure full line level (120V) on set, our 60A Transformer/Distro is designed to compensate for the slight line loss you will have over an extended cable run. That is, it is designed to slightly boost the voltage on the load side (secondary). For instance, if you were to plug the Transformer/Distro directly into the generator and feed the supply side (primary) of the transformer with 240 volts from the generator, 127 volts would come out on the secondary side where you plug in the lights. This slight boost compensates for the slight line loss that is unavoidable over a long cable run and enables you to place the generator further from set where you won't hear it, yet assures that the supply voltage on the secondary side of the transformer does not drop too low.

 

Finally, one of the greatest benefits to using our 60A Transformer/Distro with the Honda EU6500 or EU7000 Generator has got to be the ability to meet OSHA requirements for the use of these generators on job-sites. Since Transformers bond the Neutral to Ground on the secondary load side, they meet that OSHA requirement that the EU6500 and EU7000 generators alone do not. For the same reason GFCIs will also operate reliably when used on a step-down Transformer/Distro, even when the power is being generated by a Floating Neutral generator like the EU6500is. So, to bring the Honda EU6500is generator into full OSHA compliance, you only have to use a GFCI, like a 60A Shock Stop, with our 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro (use this link for a detailed explanation of OSHA requirements and why almost all portable generators do not meet them.)

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer

ScreenLight & Grip,

Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston


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#11 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 01:31 PM

Well, I did say occasionally.


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#12 Guy Holt

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 02:24 PM

Is there way for someone like me to start using a generator so that I might power an M40 or an Arrisun 60?

 

To power an Arrisun 60, or an HMI up to a 12kw, we have developed a means of  paralleling two Honda EU6500s or EU7000s to generate 120 Amps of power. A complete system consists of two modified generators, a Paralleling Control Box, and one of our Transformer/Distros (either 60-, 84-, or 100 Amps.)

 

Paralleling_Copy_HMI_Reverse_Master.jpg

Parallel operation of two Honda EU6500 generators made possible by our new Paralleling Control Box)

 

The generators require a slight modification to interface with the Paralleling Control Box, which syncs the frequency and equalizes the load between the generators. Our proprietary paralleling control circuitry uses the Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) of the generator's inverters to control the load sharing. The phase angles of the two generators are synchronized using open loop architecture. The final function of our control box is to switch the outputs of the inverters to a common bus after their frequencies are locked in step (same phase angle and time base.)

 

Paralleling_Copy_HMI_Master.jpg

(As demonstrated here, our new HD Plug-n-Play Paralleling System can power a 6K HMI as well as 2-2k and 2-1k Fresnels)

 

To provide power that is readily accessible in industry standard outlets, our Paralleling Control Box is outfitted with a 240V Bates receptacle. The 240V Bates pocket is there to power larger HMIs than has ever been possible before on Hondas (4k - 9k ARRIMAXs.) and/or one of our 60-, 84-, or 100A Transformer/Distros. The Transformer/Distro serves several important functions in this system that enables two generators to be paralleled (use this link for details), but its' primary function is to step-down the combined 240V output of the two generators into a single large 120V circuit (either 60-, 84-, or 100 Amps) that is capable of powering more small lights or a larger 120V light like a 10kw Quartz. Each of our Transformer/Distros is likewise outfitted with an industry standard 120V Bates receptacle so that you can use standard distro equipment, like Bates Siameses, Extensions, and Break-Out boxes to distribute power around your set, breaking out to U-Ground Edison Outlets where ever needed.

 

Paralleling_Copy_HMI_MidShot.jpg

Our 60A Transformer/Distro provides 120V power to smaller lights while a 6K HMI operates at 240V) 


 

An added benefit to using a Transformer/Distro to distribute the combined power of the two generators is that, no matter where you plug into the Transformer/Distro on its' secondary side, it automatically balances the load on the generator's two legs (which is critical for successful paralleling of two machines – use this link for details.)

 

Paralleling_Copy_12k_Paralleling_WS.jpg

Our 120A Paralleling Control Box combining the output of two modified Honda EU6500s to power a Mole 12/18K Par head with 12kw globe.

 

But, the most important benefit to be gained by using a Transformer/Distro, the one that makes it possible to parallel two EU6500s in the first place, is that it isolates the generators from high neutral return currents that can lead to dangerous neutral “cross-current” between the two generators that can overheat their inverters (use this link for more details.) By reducing the dangerous neutral “cross-current” created by two generators operating in parallel, our Transformer/Distros make it possible to operate more lights, or larger lights, on portable Hondas than has ever been possible before. Given the high sensitivity of HD camera systems these days, just about all the light you will need to obtain good production values can now be operated on Honda generators. Use this link for more details.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer

ScreenLight & Grip,

Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston


Edited by Guy Holt, 31 March 2017 - 02:31 PM.

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#13 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 02:54 PM

You're ever so proud of that setup, aren't you :)


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#14 Guy Holt

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 03:09 PM

You're ever so proud of that setup, aren't you :)

 

I am even prouder now that  Honda has discontinued their paralleling box for the EU7000s.  Last man standing.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer

ScreenLight & Grip,

Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston


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#15 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 03:16 PM

Go ahead and rub it in while you can.  Your spec of an island is soon to be an outcast from the union of Europeans.
 
Guy Holt, Gaffer
ScreenLight & Grip,
Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston


No need to take out Phil's kneecaps, Guy! He can barely get his hands on c-stands over there. We should be sending him donations instead.
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#16 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 09:08 PM

 

Go ahead and rub it in while you can.  Your spec of an island is soon to be an outcast from the union of Europeans.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer

ScreenLight & Grip,

Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston

 

 

 

We have cast them out ..  for better or worse.. like the old Times head line.. Fog in the Channel.. Europe cut off...  ;)

 

But more Volts and better plugs than Johnny foreigner..  


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#17 Guy Holt

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:16 AM

There doesn't seem to be a lot of people at my stage of dabbling with use of bigger lights or more power. Most everyone I find is using tow-gennys with a crew or sticking to smaller lights and LED fixtures.

 

As camera sensors require less light, that is starting to change gradually. For example, a milestone of sorts was set on the north shore of Boston recently.  The feature film “The Last Poker Game” starring Martin Landau (Mission Impossible) and Paul Sorvino (Good Fellas) shot its’ principle photography with nothing more than a Honda EU6500is. 

 

Web_LPG_Avita_Talent_Hor.jpg

Martin Landau and Paul Sorvino in a scene from “The Last Poker Game”

 

It is a milestone because “The Last Poker Game”  is no low budget indie. It was produced by Peter Pastorelli, Marshall Johnson and Eddie Rubin. Peter Pastorelli’s credits include the Netflix film Beasts Of No Nation, which he produced alongside Johnson, and The Disappearance Of Eleanor Rigby, which stared James McAvoy and Jessica Chastain. Johnson’s other credits include Blue Valentine and The Place Beyond The Pines with Ryan Gosling; Rubin’s credits include Love And Honor.

 

Web_LPG_Composite.jpg

Left: Honda EU6500is modified for 60A output. Center: 300ft cable run through the assisted living complex.  Right: ARRIMAX M40 head creating sunny look on a rainy day.

 

“Last Poker Game” follows Dr. Abe Mandelbaum (Landau), who has just moved into a luxuriant assisted living facility with his ailing wife. After forming an unlikely friendship with a womanizing gambler (Sorvino), their relationship is tested when they each try to convince a mysterious nurse, played by Maria Dizzia (Orange Is The New Black), that he is her long-lost father.

 

Web_LPG_Avita_Ballasts.jpg

60A HD Plug-n-Play Transformer/Distro powering ARRIMAX M40 and M18 on the set of the “Last Poker Game” 

 

The principle location for the movie was a sprawling new assisted living facility in Newburyport Ma.  At only 60% occupancy, the production was able to secure a whole wing of the facility, which was ideal except that the loading dock, where they could operate a generator, was on the other side of the complex.

 

Web_LPG_Grog_Int_Sorvino_Hor.jpg

Paul Sorvino in a scene from the “Last Poker Game” 

 

Given the light sensitivity of the Red that they were shooting on, the production was able to get away with nothing more than one of our modified Honda EU6500is generators. To compensate for the drop in voltage over the long cable run, the production used one of our proprietary HD Plug-n-Play Transformer/Distros that enable you to step up voltage in 5% increments. This feature enabled them to maintain full line level even after running out 300’ of cable between the generator and set. From the Transformer/Distro on set the crew then ran out 60A Bates extensions through out the wing, breaking out to 20A pockets wherever they needed.

 

Web_LPG_Grog_Int_Hor.jpg

Martin Landau and Paul Sorvino in a bar scene from the “Last Poker Game” 

 

This way they could run up to three 1.8kw Arri M80s, or a 4kw M40 when they needed a bigger source, without having to worry about tripping breakers. With ARRIMAX reflectors, these heads were plenty big enough to light scenes in the day room, dinning area, and lounge of the residence wing, everything else they could plug into the wall.

 

Web_LPG_Grog_Ext_Hor.jpg

ARRIMAX M40 powered by modified Honda EU6500 and 60A HD Plug-n-Play Transformer/Distro lights bar scene from the “Last Poker Game”

 

Using a small portable generator also enabled the production to save money by building out rental box trucks to serve as their electric and grip trucks since the trucks didn’t have to tow a diesel tow plant.  This proved to be advantageous when the production went out on location in the streets of Newburyport.  An old port city on the north shore of Boston, Newburyport is a warren of narrow streets through which it would have been difficult to tow a diesel generator. “The Last Poker Game” is, as far as we know, the first major film to take advantage of the combination of improved camera imaging, more efficient light sources, and Honda generators customized for motion picture production.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer

ScreenLight & Grip

Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston


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#18 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 10:02 AM

As camera sensors require less light, that is starting to change gradually.

 

Never tell them that!


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#19 Edward Lawrence Conley III

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 11:54 AM

I always love coming to you guys for help. This is a wealth of information I couldn't easily find.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of people at my stage of dabbling with use of bigger lights or more power. Most everyone I find is using tow-gennys with a crew or sticking to smaller lights and LED fixtures.

 

 

Around here we can get a Tow plant and distro pretty cheap. If you only need to power up 1 M40 then a 6500/7000 watt may make sense as you can get them in a cargo van.

6500/7000 is $155.00 a day plus a couple 60amp bates @

I can have a 250 amp tow plant delivered for $85.00 and the daily rate is $325.00

 

500amp is $395.00

 


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