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Basic Recommendation on Super 16mm Camera


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#1 JoshuaOne

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 01:55 AM

Hey friends...

I've been shooting DV for years...and I'm ready to invest in a decent 16mm package and get this down pat. I know filming basics, and have a decent budget. Let's say $5-10K. Ideally I'd like to buy new so I'm not inheriting someone elses problem... I know enough to know that features like crystal sync, easability of loading, and reputation will matter... I shoot action sports, motorsports, and ENG. Initially I will be using the 16mm for lifestyle, slo mo's of action sports, and FX. I'd love to get something that can do 64fps or better to facilitate clean slomo's. I'm asking about SUPER 16mm because I have been through telecine with a friend. We dumped his super 16mm from an old beat up Kodak to HDCAM. I was told super 16mm has a similar 16:9 aspect ratio and optically blows up easier.

Anyhow, I know of Aaton, Arri, etc... I guess I'm just looking for general feedback and advice. Any and all is welcome. Specific places to buy and people to ask for are apprecaited as well!

Thanks...

JoshuaOne.
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#2 J. Lamar King

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 02:53 AM

Well you're not going to buy new for 10K, that's for sure. Maybe you could get a used SR-1 for that I don't know. Maybe that little dogbone camera? I'll leave it to the other guys to get into the whole economics of ownership etc. which has been discussed a number of times. You should do a search on that.
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#3 Josh Hill

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 03:20 AM

Check Visual Products (visualproducts.com). That's probably the best bet for buying a Super16mm camera. Great service and reasonable prices.

For 10k you'll probably still be working with an older camera (Aaton 54 or Arri SR-1) but perfectly reasonable for your needs. You could get a CP16R from visual products, Super16 and PL mount, for about 7k. That would leave some money for audio (a DAT or harddrive recorder) and to even shoot some film through it.

As for high speed, I don't know what cameras go 64fps off the top of my head, but you may be looking at more than 10k for a Super16 camera that goes above 50fps. But don't quote me on that.
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#4 John Mastrogiacomo

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 04:12 AM

As for high speed, I don't know what cameras go 64fps off the top of my head, but you may be looking at more than 10k for a Super16 camera that goes above 50fps. But don't quote me on that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


An Eclair NPR can do 60fps and an ACL can do 75fps You can get a S16 ACL with 75 fps HD motor in great shape for 6K.

Talk to George Zorzoli at Optical Electro House in Culver City.

310-836-3194 :)
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#5 Nate Downes

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 08:10 AM

If you'd consider a normal 16mm instead of a Super16, more options available for a lower price and you don't loose much for quality
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#6 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 10:26 AM

I'll vouch for a converted French ACL II shooting at 75fps.
I really believe this is the best option in your price range.
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#7 Rik Andino

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 01:05 PM

Well like everyone else mentioned you can forget about buying new for 10K.
But the good thing is most film cameras are meant to last...
And a 25 year old camera can work very well
As long as it is handled with care and of course properly maintained.

One thing to know when buying a camera is exactly what features you want...
And which features you can do without...

I know you're very interested in HighSpeed work
And Super 16 camera so that certainly limits your options.

Off the top of my head...
The French Eclair ACL2 is very good
Also an German motor Arri SR1 or even better Arri SR2 are perfect.

Both these cameras do up to 75fps...which is what you need
And they both can easily be converted to Super16.
And you can most likely find them for around 10K.

An Aaton XTRPlus or Aaton XTRProd are excellent.
And they both do 75fps...
But they're usually at a higer price braket-->start thinking 20K and up.

If you're willing to compromise High Speed...
Than an Aaton LTR54 or Aaton XTR are very good cameras
But they only do 54fps which isn't so great for slo-mo

Since you're doing alot of sport shooting...
You might be looking for something small and handholdable

So a Bolex SBM or Bolex EBM converted to S16 might work...
You'll also probably need to install a Xtal synch motor...
And you can forget about shooting sound since they'll be noisy as hell.

Also check out the Ikonoskop (it doesn't do high speed though)
http://www.ikonoskop.com/
It's a very good S16 camera for shooting sports and handholdable stuff...
And you can afford to buy one new. :)

There are many many options...
Realize that buying a camera involves several months of researching...
Don't just jump at the first good offer you see...you might fall into a trap.


Good Luck

Edited by Rik Andino, 23 June 2005 - 01:07 PM.

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#8 timHealy

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 01:19 PM

Also an German motor Arri SR1 or even better Arri SR2 are perfect.

Both these cameras do up to 75fps...which is what you need
And they both can easily be converted to Super16.
And you can most likely find them for around 10K.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Don't forget the high speed version of the SR. It'll go up to 150 fps. But the motor can be slightly louder than a regular SR. But a good tune up and maintainence by you local ARRI office can keep it running well.

Too bad Arri never had the forsight to make SR's reg 16/super 16 interchangeable like the Aaton people.

Damn fools. I guess hindsight is alwasy 20/20.
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