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Standard speed vs Super Speed


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#1 Carl Nenzen Loven

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 12:22 AM

Hi there,

Now before we start yelling about technical difference, yes I have done quite some research there so I understand the difference when it comes to that.

However trying to find someone that has done a lenstest of both, on the same camera, seems hard to find.

I have an upcoming project in a few weeks and I have been given the option of a larger kit of standard speed lenses (older version that came with the BL's if I recall), or a fairly new kit (MKII) version of the super speeds. And I am trying to figure out which to pick for the look I am going for.

Now I will go there and do testing as well myself, but I would like to hear people's thought on this before as well.

C


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#2 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 12:40 AM

I guess you're talking about Zeiss Standard Speeds and Super Speeds. Apart from the difference in maximum aperture and physical size, you'll find they match extremely well. I'd be surprised if you could see any difference between them.

 

I regularly shoot with a mixed set of super and standard speeds, as do many DPs. The 6 lens set of supers, 18, 25, 35, 50, 65, 85, is usually rounded out with a 100 & 135mm standard speed. It's also nice to have the 40mm standard as well.


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#3 Bruce Greene

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 05:11 AM

Another thought:

 

If you'll be shooting on a digital camera, The new "master primes" high speed lenses will have less light "falloff" than the old standard speed lenses made for the Arri BL cameras.  So, if the high speed lenses you have access to are truly modern, I'd use those.

 

If you are shooting film, all the lenses perform very well, but the high speed lenses will probably show a bit of flare when wide open.  If you like that look of flare and extreme shallow focus, go for it.

 

And lastly, when I've used the ultra primes (new standard speed zeiss) with the arri alexa, there are some focal lengths that produce internal flare that is very bad.  The 16mm is the worst.  The light bounces off the sensor, back to the rear element, and back to the center producing a flare that radiates from the center of the frame.  You can not flag it off, though I certainly wasted my time trying! You will see it when you have bright light sources or windows in your frame.  The 65mm Master Prime also looks awful when shot on a Red Dragon.  Each lens camera combination is different.  You might want to shoot a test with some kino flows in the frame and see what happens.


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#4 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:03 AM

Hey Karl,

Just confirm what format you're shooting on?  I thought you were into S16 there.


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#5 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 06:12 PM

The Standards are some of my favorite lenses. They set is spaced really well (especially with the rarer 28mm), they have a nice organic feel to them without being too vintage-y. And they're also really small and light, which is good these days when all directors are obsessed with handheld.


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#6 Carl Nenzen Loven

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 12:54 AM

Hey Karl,

Just confirm what format you're shooting on?  I thought you were into S16 there.

I use the Eclair for most projects. This is my first with the Alexa.

 

Another thought:

 

If you'll be shooting on a digital camera, The new "master primes" high speed lenses will have less light "falloff" than the old standard speed lenses made for the Arri BL cameras.  So, if the high speed lenses you have access to are truly modern, I'd use those.

 

If you are shooting film, all the lenses perform very well, but the high speed lenses will probably show a bit of flare when wide open.  If you like that look of flare and extreme shallow focus, go for it.

 

And lastly, when I've used the ultra primes (new standard speed zeiss) with the arri alexa, there are some focal lengths that produce internal flare that is very bad.  The 16mm is the worst.  The light bounces off the sensor, back to the rear element, and back to the center producing a flare that radiates from the center of the frame.  You can not flag it off, though I certainly wasted my time trying! You will see it when you have bright light sources or windows in your frame.  The 65mm Master Prime also looks awful when shot on a Red Dragon.  Each lens camera combination is different.  You might want to shoot a test with some kino flows in the frame and see what happens.

We are shooting on the Alexa Classic. And it is a kit of Super speeds version II, from what I have found out. The normal speeds are from the BL3-era. 

 

I guess you're talking about Zeiss Standard Speeds and Super Speeds. Apart from the difference in maximum aperture and physical size, you'll find they match extremely well. I'd be surprised if you could see any difference between them.

 

I regularly shoot with a mixed set of super and standard speeds, as do many DPs. The 6 lens set of supers, 18, 25, 35, 50, 65, 85, is usually rounded out with a 100 & 135mm standard speed. It's also nice to have the 40mm standard as well.

 

I will probably get the normal speeds. The light gain shooting digital is enough to make up for it.

 

The Standards are some of my favorite lenses. They set is spaced really well (especially with the rarer 28mm), they have a nice organic feel to them without being too vintage-y. And they're also really small and light, which is good these days when all directors are obsessed with handheld.

 

Duely noted :)

also, very cool to get a response from another Swede, and a FSF at that.


Edited by Carl Nenzen Loven, 16 April 2017 - 12:55 AM.

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#7 Kevin Joelson

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 08:21 PM

I regularly shoot with a mixed set of super and standard speeds, as do many DPs. The 6 lens set of supers, 18, 25, 35, 50, 65, 85, is usually rounded out with a 100 & 135mm standard speed. It's also nice to have the 40mm standard as well.

 

I love shooting and mixing the sets too.  I recently picked up a 40mm for my set and I love it.  It seems to always be my starting point when looking at a scene.  I'm looking at adding a 100 or the 135.  Based on your experiences with them, which one would be the must have addition to the kit.  My gut's telling me the 135, but I'd love to hear opinions based on real world performance.  


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#8 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:44 PM

I'd say the 100mm is the lens I use more out of the two. A 135mm is a slightly weird focal length on s35, so often I'll stick with the 100mm and just move the camera.


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