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Choppy DVX-100 Footage - HELP


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#1 Sean Azze

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 12:05 AM

I recently made a short film on a dvx-100 (or 100a, not sure which) and after I edited the footage on final cut pro hd, I found that the footage looked choppy. What do I mean? Well, like whenever there is a lot of movement on screen, it almost looks like there are frames missing - the movements are not smooth. I don't know what caused it to look this way, but it certainly didn't look that way before the footage was captured into the computer.

:blink:

Does anyone know what happened and more importantly - is there a way I can correct it? The only other problem I had with this project is that I would notice popping sounds during the audio that would arise out of nowhere. My buddy who actually owns the Mac we edited on says it might be from rendering so much.

Aww, how technology spites me. The Amish life seems so appealing sometimes.
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#2 Matt Irwin

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 12:16 AM

By "choppy" do you mean processor lag/ computer trying to catch up, missing frames, or maybe a "strobing" effect?

Can you give some details about the computer (processor[s], ram, video card,etc)? Was your footage shot 24p?
Perhaps a dumb question, but are you viewing your footage on the FCP canvas or on a reference monitor?
If you haven't already, you should do a test print-to-video and see if the footage looks "choppy".

If this is a post problem, you may find some better answers on a different forum like DvInfo.net or creativecow.

Best of luck.
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 12:25 AM

What shutter speed were you using?

It sounds like some sort of conversion error though if it got choppier in post.
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#4 Gordon Highland

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 01:00 AM

Did the red render bar appear over clips when you dragged them to the timeline? This means they have to be rendered before viewing, but more importantly means that the sequence settings do not match the capture settings. If it's rendering to the wrong settings it could look jumpy because of differing frame rates or field orders or whatnot. Remember that if you shot in 24pA and are removing advanced pulldown during the capture process, the capture frame rate should still be 29.97 but the sequence timebase should be 23.98.

Unfortunately there's a bug (well, *I* consider it a bug) in FCP that when you create a new sequence it doesn't necessarily match what you set under Audio/Video Settings for sequences. You have to double-check what's listed in Settings under the Sequence menu as well, and it needs to match what you captured. There should be no render bar.

There's also the issue of what kind of real-time pulldown is being applied during playback, etc.

You can trash your Render Files folder for that project and re-render if you think that's the case, but I've never seen that make it choppy, only degrade the image quality. If you're getting a lot of dropped frames during playback (it should give you a warning), usually restarting the application will fix that.

You should check out the FCP forums at http://www.uemedia.com/CPC/2-pop/ I think they're down right now, though.

Edited by Gordon Highland, 24 June 2005 - 01:08 AM.

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#5 Andy O'Neil

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:13 PM

I'm actually having the same problem.

I shot on a DVX100a (24pa and squeezed). Viewing the footage from a deck directly linked to a monitor, the footage is flawless - no "choppiness".

However, after digitizing in FCP (Advanced Pulldown: 2:3:3:2, Anamorphic, 23.98), viewing the footage from the timeline on the monitor, the footage has a strobing effect. During camera moves, the choppy strobing is even more apparent, especially around the edges of subjects.

I've tried capturing the footage with a variety of capture presets, 29.97, anamorphic, etc. exhausting all options., but I'm having NO luck getting that flawless footage to translate correctly in FCP.

Also, there is no need to render the "choppy", strobing footage after dropping it into the timeline. The settings match up in that regard.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Andy

Edited by Andy O'Neil, 12 July 2006 - 10:16 PM.

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#6 Jesus Sifuentes

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:56 PM

I'm actually having the same problem.

I shot on a DVX100a (24pa and squeezed). Viewing the footage from a deck directly linked to a monitor, the footage is flawless - no "choppiness".

However, after digitizing in FCP (Advanced Pulldown: 2:3:3:2, Anamorphic, 23.98), viewing the footage from the timeline on the monitor, the footage has a strobing effect. During camera moves, the choppy strobing is even more apparent, especially around the edges of subjects.

I've tried capturing the footage with a variety of capture presets, 29.97, anamorphic, etc. exhausting all options., but I'm having NO luck getting that flawless footage to translate correctly in FCP.

Also, there is no need to render the "choppy", strobing footage after dropping it into the timeline. The settings match up in that regard.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Andy


you could make a dvd and test it on your tv monitor. it could just be a computer lag issue.
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#7 George Lekovic

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:49 PM

it might be that you did not shoot 24 frames/sec advanced, and then you did a pulldown when you captured, thus removing frames that were not supposed to be removed. try re-capturing, or simply putting the captured footage in a normal sequence, w/o applying any pulldown. it might help.

never really done this - but that's what it sounds like to me...
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#8 Nathan Chaszeyka

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:29 AM

it might be that you did not shoot 24 frames/sec advanced, and then you did a pulldown when you captured, thus removing frames that were not supposed to be removed. try re-capturing, or simply putting the captured footage in a normal sequence, w/o applying any pulldown. it might help.

never really done this - but that's what it sounds like to me...



I have had the same issue happen with my own footage and the DVX 100a. I agree with George as this was the solution that ended up working for me.
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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 04:27 PM

Hi,

I have had complaints about this before, on at least three occasions. In each case it turned out that the user was monitoring 3:2 pulldown NTSC, then comparing the apparent smoothness to properly recovered true 24p on a computer monitor. I suspect there may well be no fault; it's just a case of people pressing the 24-frame button based on buzzwords and hearsay without having any real understanding of what they think they want.

Phil
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#10 Michael Collier

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 04:46 PM

One problem that can happen, and I noticed you said anamorphic, which the DVX is not anamorphic, its 16x9, big difference. One thing that can happen if you render with the wrong pixle ratio is letterboxing. I made this mistake on a movie I finnished recently and it caused huge problems. If the pixel ratio is wrong (like choosing anamorphic ratio when a 1.2 pixel ratio would be appropriate) the software automatically rescales the image and adds a letterbox of about 5 pixels. The problem comes in when interlaced frames are averaged, and as a result you would have very thick bands of interlace, think showing both frames through a vanecian matte.

If you could post a still of the frame, maybe we could see a little better whats going on. Sometimes its as simple as reversing the feild order (its usually lower feild first)
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#11 Andy O'Neil

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 07:40 PM

Posted Image

Thanks, everyone, for all your help.

Here is a picture. This "distortion" is occuring every 5 frames.
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#12 Brian Wells

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 01:47 AM

Make sure you've set up the NTSC output for a 2:3:2:3 pulldown from a 23.98Fps timeline, or the video output will not be smooth as it should be.

(FCP defaults to a 2:2:2:4 pulldown on G4's slower than 1Ghz).
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#13 Andy O'Neil

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 10:10 PM

Make sure you've set up the NTSC output for a 2:3:2:3 pulldown from a 23.98Fps timeline, or the video output will not be smooth as it should be.

(FCP defaults to a 2:2:2:4 pulldown on G4's slower than 1Ghz).


Brian, why wouldn't you set up the NTSC output for a 2:3:3:2 pulldown, since that's your capturing preset?
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#14 Andy O'Neil

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 10:47 PM

It was a four camera shoot (1 DVX100, 1 DVX100a, 1 DVX100b, and a Canon XL1s).

The three DVXs were all shot in 24pA.

The DVX100a and b were both shot Squeezed, the DVX100 was not.

The footage that is giving me problems during capturing is coming from the DVX100a (24pA, squeezed).

When using the Advanced Pulldown Capture Preset, usually, Final Cut Pro crashes after about 2 seconds of capturing. I also sometimes get a 122 GB av file that magically appears in my external hard drive. - this is after capturing only 2 seconds of footage.

The only luck I've had capturing is with the following settings:
Posted Image

Now, this comes with its own set of problems. It becomes a render nightmare. Everytime I move the footage in the timeline, I have to render. So, I have to export the footage as a self-contained QuickTime and then import, and drop that back into my timeline. Now, I can finally start editing.

It all seems very makeshift - and I don't even know why I consider myself an editor when my workflow is such. It's absurd. Isn't it?

Anyway, this is a lot to digest. I don't expect anyone to tackle it, but my situation is on the table. Keep in mind, the capturing method that has worked does NOT work all the time. Sometimes there is a cadence break in digitizing, and I only get portions of the entire 1-hour DV tape. The process is cumbersome and works about 70% of the time.

I've gone ahead and foolishly jumped in, started editing with the conditions stated above. There's really no turning back, like re-digitizing everything again and starting over.

I just really need a better understanding of what I'm doing. I'll say it again, it's aburd.

Sorry for the diatribe.

Mac OS X v. 10.3.9
Dual 1.8 GHz PowerPC G5
2 GB DDR SDRAM
Final Cut Pro 4.5
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