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shooting inside a supermarket


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#1 mmonte000

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 04:03 PM

I will be shooting with an sdx-900 in July and will be shooting inside a supermarket with flourescent lights. I've never done this before, so I need to know what the best way to account for the green hue that flourescent lights give off from the house lights, and also if I should use Kino Flos with some kind of green gel so I could white balance correctly. If anone has done this before please help.

Thanks.

p.s. the supermarket is fairly dark, does anyone know how well the sdx-900 works in darker situations?
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#2 Gordon Highland

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 04:20 PM

Lots of ways to tackle this. For one thing, if you just shot it au naturel, the SDX has a 4400 filter built-in, which corrects well for fluoros.

The supermarkes fluoros are likely cool, not warm, so you would use green gels over your tungsten lamps to match theirs, if augmenting what's there. Or you could have someone re-tube the supermarket's lights with something else to match your Kinos, depending on what kind of bulbs those have. Not practical for most folks.

This camera is pretty sensitive and works well in low light. Keep in mind you lose some (maybe a stop?) when you go into progressive mode from interlace. Be sure that monitor is calibrated properly. If everything has a common tint, that's easily corrected in post, but mixed sources are very difficult to deal with, and are often compromised. Of you could go B&W or tinted if you get in real trouble. :blink:
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#3 Shawn Mielke

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 04:24 PM

My advice is that you work the flickery, sickly, hollowed eye look into the misen scene. Cheapest way to go.

:-]

Sorry, not enough sleep last night.

S.
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#4 mmonte000

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 04:31 PM

I've never used the sdx-900, what modes does it have, and what is best for low light? and could those settings also be used for outdoor scenes so they match correctly?
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#5 stallion49

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 05:06 PM

Yes you can add plus green to any tungsten lights you are using to match the greenish hue. You can then (if you have the equipment) color correct it in post. Or like stated above use the in camera filter.

You could also use some gels and change the color temp of the in store lights, but if its already dark that might cause problems.

I dont know anythign about that camera though.
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 05:43 PM

Pro video cameras are balanced for 3200K (tungsten) and have a filter wheel for optical correction for average daylight (the "D" filter on a Sony). Sometimes this is combined with ND filtration; sometimes ND is on a separate filter wheel. Besides the daylight correction, there is often a halfway correction similar to the 81EF (the "C" filter on a Sony). There is also a 3200K balance filter selection on the wheel (the "B" filter on a Sony) but really that means a clear filter.

On the side of a Sony camera (and probably the Panasonic) is a switch that reads something like PRESET / A / B. Preset is basically the 3200K balance and then you use the filter wheel for preset daylight balance. A and B are for white balancing and memorize what your last white balance was when switched to A or B, so you can save two settings. So under fluorescents, the most common technique is to switch to A or B, leave the filter wheel at 3200K (i.e. no filter) then use the white balance / black balance switch under the lens to white balance onto something white under the fluorescents. The camera balances the individual RGB levels to get the white object to look white. You may have to adjust the f-stop if there isn't enough exposure to white balance.

If find a simple lighting technique is to put the same brand tubes that are in the ceiling in my Kino fixtures. So if the overheads use GE Cool Whites, for example, then I try to get some of those. If the ceiling uses standard 2-pin 4' tubes, you can often find the spares for the location or steal some from an area not being seen and put them into the Kinos.

Trouble is that grocery stores are often a mixture of fluorescents, daylight, and tungsten.

"stallion49" and "mmonte000" -- we have an unofficial policy of having people sign the bottom of their posts with their real name, and hopefully their city. Unless they are alreay registered under their real name and it appears in the left column. You can create an automatic signature so you don't have to type your name each time at the bottom of your posts.
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#7 Tim J Durham

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 06:33 PM

I will be shooting with an sdx-900 in July and will be shooting inside a supermarket with flourescent lights. I've never done this before, so I need to know what the best way to account for the green hue that flourescent lights give off from the house lights, and also if I should use Kino Flos with some kind of green gel so I could white balance correctly. If anone has done this before please help.

Thanks.

p.s. the supermarket is fairly dark, does anyone know how well the sdx-900 works in darker situations?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This company:

http://warmcards.com/

sells a "minus-green" white balance card in a set of 6 or 7 cards and it really makes a difference.
I was skeptical but bought a set anyway (money back guarantee) and was pleasantly surprised. Ofcourse you could make your own by laminating colored paper, I suppose, but who has time for that?
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#8 Paul Bruening

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 11:23 PM

Are you shooting DAY or NIGHT? Some stores have big windows along the front. That's where it gets hairy. Daylight and the flos won't likely match up. Most of the stores we've shot in wouldn't allow us to touch their fixtures (no gelling). Not only that, but the flos in grocery stores have some of the worst flicker. I don't know why grocery stores have these units. You don't catch it until you roll the tape back or get the dailies from the lab. Sometimes, you can flood the scene with tungstens and over ride the flos into insignifigance, but you'll still get wierd colors in the corners on wide shots. We try to rescript to put the scene somewhere else. A convenience store is alot easier since there is often alot of light pouring in the windows. We just frame the shot to keep the three stops hotter windows out of the shot.

Never underestimate the hassle saving capabilities of the script writer's pen.
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#9 Heiko Saele

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 05:09 PM

As a tv cameraman (that means I almost never have time to use much lighting or appropriate gels) I'd say take a 3.600-3800 or even 4000 white balance (either you can set the 3.200 preset to a higher value on the camera directly, or use a mix of tungsten and fluorescent light for the white balance) and use un-geled tungsten lighting. It usually looks quite good (key lights are warm while the "back lights" are colder).
Of course it won't be coherent if other tungsten-lit scenes were shot with a 3200 white balance. However I find 3400-3800 white balances nicer anyways for most tungsten-lit scenes, it just looks warmer (in the daily tv business color correction is only applied when really necessary, so the cameraman has to do color grading on location with a creative white balance :D )
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#10 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 06:43 PM

have the store turn off the overhead lights, and use your own. (Ok, I dont know if this is practical or not...)
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