Jump to content


Photo

Arriflex d-21 useful in 2017?


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Jay Young

Jay Young
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 498 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Lexington KY

Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:06 PM

I have been trying to find a digital camera with a less sensitive sensor.

Three years ago the D-21 was exclaimed to be "more film like" even against the Alexa. Perhaps the new SXT model has gone beyond that claim.

Do those who used the camera feel it vould still be useful? Im shooting a show right now and lighting at asa 100 and 200 around T4/5.6. Mostly tungsten, with a tow plant its not an issue.

The D-21 seems to check all the boxes for my personal tastes in a camera: 2K, optical viewfinder, spinning shutter, low base iso.

I assume I could throw an SDI 2k recorder onboard and go? Im certainly not going HDCAM tape these days.

I guess no one shootes like me, and I dont get hired to shoot like everyone else. I assume its going to be hard to find openminded thoughs pn the subject, but I figured I would ask here, where the experience is.

When I first watched Downton Abbey, I thought it was a 35 millimeter show. It was not until two years later that I learned that it was a digital show, and it was not until last year that I learned that it was first shot on the D21.

I guess the real question is, if I have the power and the lighting units available and the D21 gives me the image that I like, why not use it?
  • 0

#2 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7480 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:23 PM

I quit liked the camera when I shot with it; though we end KiPro to HD, but man it was a nice system. I say go for it, hell why not?


  • 0

#3 Mark Kenfield

Mark Kenfield
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1196 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Australia/Wherever The Wind Takes Me

Posted 09 May 2017 - 05:55 AM

The weight, necessity of external recording, and requirement for 24v (I think) battery power, could make it a bit frustrating. But it certainly seems capable of creating nice imagery.

And having an Alexa Studio now, I can certainly vouch for the delightfulness of having an optical viewfinder for operating.


  • 0

#4 Carl Nenzen Loven

Carl Nenzen Loven
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 176 posts
  • Student
  • San Francisco

Posted 14 June 2017 - 12:41 PM

I have been trying to find a digital camera with a less sensitive sensor.

Three years ago the D-21 was exclaimed to be "more film like" even against the Alexa. Perhaps the new SXT model has gone beyond that claim.

Do those who used the camera feel it vould still be useful? Im shooting a show right now and lighting at asa 100 and 200 around T4/5.6. Mostly tungsten, with a tow plant its not an issue.

The D-21 seems to check all the boxes for my personal tastes in a camera: 2K, optical viewfinder, spinning shutter, low base iso.

I assume I could throw an SDI 2k recorder onboard and go? Im certainly not going HDCAM tape these days.

I guess no one shootes like me, and I dont get hired to shoot like everyone else. I assume its going to be hard to find openminded thoughs pn the subject, but I figured I would ask here, where the experience is.

When I first watched Downton Abbey, I thought it was a 35 millimeter show. It was not until two years later that I learned that it was a digital show, and it was not until last year that I learned that it was first shot on the D21.

I guess the real question is, if I have the power and the lighting units available and the D21 gives me the image that I like, why not use it?

Hi there,

I just wanted to say I am looking for the same thing actually, wondering if it is still useable.

I tend to shoot a lot of film still, and I think it would be a good alternative for me, keeping the same limitations as film, while still shooting digital. Regardless, I don't really know of performance at 500 ISO, if it can output 444 through one SDI (because my recorder is 6g) and so on.

C


  • 0

#5 mark mervis

mark mervis

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Virginia

Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:26 PM

I have bought and sold 15 D-21’s. I love this camera! The D-21 has some unique imaging characteristics when compared to the Alexa.This comes from the way the D-21’s auto defect pixel correction and auto black balance works.

As the mechanical shutter closes the camera compares the blanked out frame to a stored reference black and a defect pixel map. A correction mask is generated and applied to the subsequent frame. This algorithm produces a “random” film like grain. The colorametry is virtually the same as the Alexa but there is a more pronounced horizontal smear and slightly less dynamic range.

 

There are several notable drawbacks to the D-21 in 2017 that should be considered. 

1-The ISO is 200.

2-There is no internal recording.

3-Arriraw generated by the D-21 is unique. The Codex-M and the S.two OB-1 are the only reliable devices that can record this format. The Codex-S has D-21 menus but only accepts 3G input. D-21 only outputs 1.5G single, dual and quad link. (WTF Codex-S?)

4-The 12 bit D-21 Arriraw can only be debarred using the Arri ARC software and only allows output as massive DPX 10 or 16 bit files. (Resolve and Premier can work with DPX. The former can generate proxies to edit with and both can generate compressed prores options).

5-Though the sensor is 4:3 (2880 x 2160) and made to do anamorphic, like most Arri cameras you end up with a 2.66:1 image. So you need to crop down to 2.39:1 Unless you record D-21 Arriraw 2880x2160 you will dip below 1080 when cropped.

6-Most menus (white balance) must be accessed through a standard def. output.

 

Sooo, while the D-21 is an cool camera and makes beautiful images particularly in anamorphic, it is not plug and play. Simplest way to go? Get a Prores recorder and shoot HD. Thats basically how they did “Downton Abby.” 

 

 

“Arriflex D-21 2017 practicality" is in the timeline of the beholder.


Edited by mark mervis, 15 August 2017 - 02:28 PM.

  • 0

#6 David Peterson

David Peterson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 245 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Auckland, New Zealand.

Posted 27 December 2017 - 07:41 AM

Sooo, while the D-21 is an cool camera and makes beautiful images particularly in anamorphic, it is not plug and play. Simplest way to go? Get a Prores recorder and shoot HD. Thats basically how they did “Downton Abby.” 

So how would you easily do that, can you capture ProRes HQ from a single SDI output? Such as with an Atomos / BMD / etc recorder?


  • 0

#7 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 12283 posts
  • Other

Posted 27 December 2017 - 07:48 AM

It's probably possible, and not that hard, to write a bit of code to capture it over a Blackmagic SDI board, or similar, if you really wanted to. Then you could run it through something like DCRaw, re-wrap it to DNG, or whatever.

 

P


  • 0

#8 Matej Pok

Matej Pok
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 72 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Bratislava, Slovak Republic, Europe

Posted 30 December 2017 - 05:32 AM

Hi there,
I have got one D21 too and I love this little camera! Optical viewfinder with Arriglow is absolutely fantastic thing. You can even follow focus with it easily.
What I like is how good white balance system works - camera is in changing temperature (like from -5 to +25 Celsius), there is infrared polution, sun is changing - you just hit 5600k and it still looks, as it should look like! Although, we all know it is not just fixed at 5600k, but it is constantly shifting a little bit.
I don't know how it's done WB in Alexa, but on RED's and Blackmagic's cameras it definitely don't works like that.

The dynamic range (10 stops) and ASA 200 is a little drawback in 2017. And with sensitivity, for day exterior I rate it as 200, but for interior I use 125 or 100 rating for better noise floor.

Have anyone used anamorphic viewfinder with the camera ?
I'm trying to buy one for years, but that thing is no-one selling. I don't know, if it's the same viewfinder as for 535 (Arri AVF-1), or it is some special piece ?

Also I can't attach optical videoassit from my 435, there is some small missing piece to connect video camera (attached to the viewfinder system), to the side unit (Arri IVS-1), could someone help me with these ?
  • 0

#9 Feli di Giorgio

Feli di Giorgio
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Director
  • California, USA

Posted 27 February 2018 - 09:04 PM

I have bought and sold 15 D-21’s. I love this camera! The D-21 has some unique imaging characteristics when compared to the Alexa.This comes from the way the D-21’s auto defect pixel correction and auto black balance works.

 

 

 

Is the D-21 CCD or CMOS? I want to say CCD...

 

thx


  • 0

#10 Joe Taylor

Joe Taylor
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 436 posts
  • Other

Posted 10 March 2018 - 11:43 PM

I believe the D20 and D21 had a mechanical port on the side that allowed the operator to hand crank the camera much like you could with the Arri 435.  I've been looking for footage that came from the obscure option but with no luck.

 

Anybody in the know who has handcranked a D-21, I'd love to hear you chime in.  Does it really look like classically handcranked film?


  • 0

#11 Hale Mednick

Hale Mednick

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Director
  • Portland

Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:10 PM

 Still very useful in 2018.  I have one and I've directed a feature film that was shot with it.  Its a great camera, if you are willing to put up with the low ISO.   Has its own unique look that I don't think any other camera has.

You can see what we it looks like here.  


Edited by Hale Mednick, 23 April 2018 - 03:13 PM.

  • 0

#12 Phil Connolly

Phil Connolly
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 470 posts
  • Director
  • London

Posted 24 April 2018 - 09:38 AM

 Still very useful in 2018.  I have one and I've directed a feature film that was shot with it.  Its a great camera, if you are willing to put up with the low ISO.   Has its own unique look that I don't think any other camera has.

You can see what we it looks like here.  

Ikonoskop!!! Class


  • 0

#13 Jay Young

Jay Young
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 498 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Lexington KY

Posted 25 April 2018 - 05:39 AM

 Still very useful in 2018.  I have one and I've directed a feature film that was shot with it.  Its a great camera, if you are willing to put up with the low ISO.   Has its own unique look that I don't think any other camera has.

You can see what we it looks like here.  

 

 

Hale,

 

Looks great!  I'm sold.  Gonna try to find one.


  • 0

#14 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 12283 posts
  • Other

Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:03 AM

Greens a bit neon?


  • 0

#15 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7480 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 26 April 2018 - 10:13 AM

Greens a bit neon?

Everything is a bit neon in comparison to the "palette" of the UK-- even our greys are neon.

 

but yes, I recall the D21 having an "affinity' For the greens, and could also be the grade. 


  • 0

#16 Hale Mednick

Hale Mednick

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Director
  • Portland

Posted 27 May 2018 - 12:24 PM

Yes, I thought the ikonoskop added a touch of class too!

 

There's an arri d21 on ebay right now.

 

If you want to see what it looks like uncolored, you can see the original footage straight out of camera here.


  • 0


FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Willys Widgets

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

Tai Audio

Visual Products

Abel Cine

Glidecam

The Slider

Paralinx LLC

Technodolly

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks

Broadcast Solutions Inc

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Wooden Camera

Willys Widgets

CineTape

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

Visual Products

Abel Cine

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineLab