Jump to content


Photo

Replicating the look of color Nitrate prints


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Sanji Robinson

Sanji Robinson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • International

Posted 20 May 2017 - 02:10 PM

Color nitrate prints are gorgeous: the shimmer, contrast, deep blacks and vivid color. Especially IB technicolor nitrate prints.

 
I understand that nitrate film stock has higher silver content than safety film.
 
Is there any way of getting close to that with standard 35mm safety film?

  • 0

#2 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20314 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:29 PM

There is no silver in a color print unless a silver retention process like ENR is applied and that would only be done to regular color print stock.

Nitrate color prints are almost exclusively Technicolor dye transfer prints though I guess there were some early Eastmancolor print stock on a nitrate base though I don't know for sure without a search.
  • 0

#3 Sanji Robinson

Sanji Robinson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • International

Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:43 PM

If I were to leave the silver in the print, would the image shimmer when projected like Nitrate film?


  • 0

#4 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20314 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:48 PM

Are you too young to have seen an ENR or skip bleach print? So many movies in the 1980s through mid 2000s did that.
  • 0

#5 Sanji Robinson

Sanji Robinson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • International

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:13 PM

I have heard of it but I don't remember. Is it beautiful? Does it closely resemble a nitrate print?


  • 0

#6 Dirk DeJonghe

Dirk DeJonghe
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 615 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Kortrijk,Belgium

Posted 21 May 2017 - 12:44 AM

Nitrate is the base, just like acetate or polyester. it has no relationship to the look of the emulsion. We still use B&W acetate and polyester base stocks daily. if processed to the same gamma, there is no difference. Nitrate is no longer manufactured since the 1950s because of flammability. 16 and 8mm never were on nitrate base because of intended amateur use.


  • 0

#7 Dan Hasson

Dan Hasson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Other
  • London/Brighton

Posted 21 May 2017 - 04:26 AM

Nitrate is the base, just like acetate or polyester. it has no relationship to the look of the emulsion.

This is so right.

Also Sanji, there is so much more going into making an image 'gorgeous' than the medium it was shot and/or projected on. 


  • 0

#8 Sanji Robinson

Sanji Robinson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • International

Posted 21 May 2017 - 06:26 AM

This is so right.

Also Sanji, there is so much more going into making an image 'gorgeous' than the medium it was shot and/or projected on. 

 

 

true.

 

but what is it that gives nitrate film its shimmer and beauty? if its only the amount of silver, would it not be similar to the enr?


  • 0

#9 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20314 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 21 May 2017 - 09:29 AM

Your first post was about Technicolor I.B. prints on nitrate base, which as I said, don't have silver in them, so now are you talking about b&w nitrate prints?
  • 0

#10 Sanji Robinson

Sanji Robinson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • International

Posted 21 May 2017 - 09:39 AM

Your first post was about Technicolor I.B. prints on nitrate base, which as I said, don't have silver in them, so now are you talking about b&w nitrate prints?

 

 

no i still mean technicolor ib on nitrate base. do you know what it is that make technicolor ib on nitrate sparkle on the screen as opposed to technicolor ib on safety film?

 

can you describe what enr prints look like? other than more contrast and desat color, is there something special about them?


  • 0

#11 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20314 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 21 May 2017 - 12:01 PM

I.B. Technicolor prints on nitrate base went away around the same time as shooting on 3-strip Technicolor cameras so you may be missing the look of 3-strip color rendition compared to Eastmancolor negative as opposed to how they looked printed on nitrate versus safety base. Base is clear stock so it shouldn't be contributing much of anything to the look.
  • 0

#12 Satsuki Murashige

Satsuki Murashige
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3510 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 21 May 2017 - 04:51 PM

I would describe an ENR print as looking completely opposite to a Technicolor IB print. Technicolor prints were very low grain and very saturated, with some slight softness due to the three color passes being not perfectly registered. You would sometimes see red halos around bright highlights.

ENR prints were like a black and white sliver layer being laid on top of the color image - contrasty and desaturated, deep rich blacks, grainy silvery highlights and thick midtones. They also tended to appear sharper because of the extra contrast.
  • 0


Metropolis Post

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

The Slider

CineTape

Tai Audio

Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

CineLab

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Technodolly

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

Willys Widgets

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

CineLab

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

The Slider

Ritter Battery

rebotnix Technologies

Paralinx LLC

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Tai Audio

Visual Products

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Rig Wheels Passport

Metropolis Post

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment