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Screen direction error in Manchester by the Sea


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#21 Richard Boddington

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 11:09 AM

Oh it's totally fine says this director/editor who frequently breaks continuity to serve a "higher purpose."

 

I have one simple answer to everyone that complains about my work on the internet, go *bleep* yourselves, all of you!!

 

R,


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#22 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 11:43 AM

That's Lucas Syndrome.


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#23 Justin Hayward

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 12:14 PM


I think it was Hitchcock, the master of the designed sequence, who said you should never cut back to the same shot twice - 

 

I like this approach if only because it's more fun to plan.  I call it the "puzzle piece" approach where each shot fits in a place to make the whole.  It's funny though, if you try this in the world of advertising you can get into trouble, which is something I learned the hard way.  The one thing agency people like more than their trendy clothes are options.  Since I'm almost never invited to the edit and since being in an edit suite is NOT being in their office... they like to milk the edit session for everything it's worth.  Which, if not covered like crazy, can lead to some pretty funky cut jobs.


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#24 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 12:35 PM

sadly cuts were only precious in the days where cutting was a physical act. In the world of control "z" nothing really need be designed, but rather "discovered" for better or worse.


It's not about the material cost of the splice though. Cuts are precious because the audience's attention is so tenuous. Once you lose them, they're gone. And every time you add an unnecessary cut, or shot, or gesture you diminish the focus of the film.

It's like telling a joke - every unnecessary detail makes the joke less funny. At a certain point, it just stops being funny altogether.
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#25 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 01:02 PM

It's funny though, if you try this in the world of advertising you can get into trouble, which is something I learned the hard way.


One of my good friends produces and directs medium to medium-large broadcast and ad-buy commercials. He's really good at the puzzle piece approach, to the point where he can edit in-camera to the second, but he also always edits his own footage. Somehow, he makes it work!

In my personal experience on much smaller budget projects, handing off such puzzle piece material to an editor who was brought in later can be a real crapshoot. I feel like in some cases, it's because the editor is being stubborn and doesn't want to look at the shot list or script notes and wants to find their own way. Which would be fine if they then didn't complain to the director that the footage doesn't make sense and that they need pickup shots to make the sequence work. At which point, I feel like telling them to simply put the shots in scene # order and cut off the slates, John Ford style...
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#26 Justin Hayward

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 01:22 PM

I've also been on the flip side of this coin where I went into over-time covering something from every conceivable angle, because I assumed they would appreciate options, which they usually do.  Then I see the final cut and they wound up only using two shots.  Now it looks like I wasted time getting stuff we don't need, because I don't have a vision.   Kind of a catch 22.

 

I've often wondered if directing a big franchise movie for a studio is like this, but times a thousand.


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#27 Randy Walsh

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 01:33 PM

Interesting perspectives from everyone. I can simply say, in my opinion There are some basic rules that should be followed. It's like some musical notes belong in a cord and some notes don't. Playing out of tune might sound cool and progressive to the artist - but in reality, it's just out of tune.
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#28 Richard Boddington

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 04:11 PM

 

What is the alternative Phil?  Have 50 members of the public sitting beside you whilst you edit, then they can all give their expert advice based on all their years of training in film?

 

I'll say to you what I say to every critic....don't like what you see on the screen, then go and make your own movie and show us all how brilliant you are and how you can do it so much better.

 

R,


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#29 Justin Hayward

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 04:24 PM

I just heard the quote from Jean-Luc Godard, "Critics are soldiers who fire on their own men."


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#30 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 05:50 PM

 

What is the alternative Phil?  Have 50 members of the public sitting beside you whilst you edit, then they can all give their expert advice based on all their years of training in film?

 

I'll say to you what I say to every critic....don't like what you see on the screen, then go and make your own movie and show us all how brilliant you are and how you can do it so much better.

 

R,

 

Alternately, I suppose we could just stop watching and talking about movies entirely... I mean, I totally understand the emotional impulse to protect one's creative work - but on the other hand, it kinda goes with the territory when you put your work out there for public consumption.

 

If it's any consolation, people only talk about the films that get seen. Which means ultimately the more critics you have, the more people end up seeing your movie. :)


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#31 Richard Boddington

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 07:21 PM

 

Alternately, I suppose we could just stop watching and talking about movies entirely... I mean, I totally understand the emotional impulse to protect one's creative work - but on the other hand, it kinda goes with the territory when you put your work out there for public consumption.

 

If it's any consolation, people only talk about the films that get seen. Which means ultimately the more critics you have, the more people end up seeing your movie. :)

 

Oh sure they can talk and criticize all they want.  In my case however what is the point? Clearly I don't give a *bleep* about anyone's opinion except my own.

 

R,


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#32 Justin Hayward

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 09:11 PM

When you put yourself out there, you're opening the door to public opinion as to whether or not you're a stupid idiot.  And the public will judge.  I recently heard a very famous critic talk about a critically acclaimed film and he said watching this movie made him realize how hard it was to write a good script. I thought to myself, "of the hundreds of movies this guy has reviewed, how did it somehow take this movie for him to realize writing a good script is hard???"  Then I thought, "When most critics see a movie they think is bad, it seems they think it's bad because the filmmakers are simply stupid people, but they almost never think it's because making a good movie is really hard." 

 

But who am I to talk.  Maybe film critics have a much harder life than I imagine.  And I don't doubt they are smarter than me.


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#33 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 09:13 PM

I listen to filmmakers for objectivity and critics for subjectivity.


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#34 Richard Boddington

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 10:10 PM

Thank the Lord they shut down the IMDB boards.  One less avenue for idiots with computers to express their opinions.

 

R,


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#35 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 10:58 PM

Oh sure they can talk and criticize all they want.  In my case however what is the point? Clearly I don't give a *bleep* about anyone's opinion except my own.
 
R,


Well, yes :)
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#36 Giacomo Girolamo

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 01:56 PM

No, I don't have a clip to post.
I too... didn't get far into the movie. This scene is close to the beginning. But it's very much worth looking for. I'm a cinematographer with over 35 years experience. Screen direction is a major deal to me. I screwed up once in a indie film and I'll never do it again. I'm totally cool with breaking the rules, but usually with a flare... like; if you jump the line, the next shot would be extreme - like extremely wide. With that, I'm ok. Or with any other way that one could creatively concele the line breach. In this scene, there are 4 actors in dialogue and the audiuance needs to follow the story. Crossing the line in my humble view is damaging to the flow of information. Funny, my wife (watching it with me) didn't notice anything wrong.
So... hmmm.

35 of experience and you learn so little?

Maybe the explanation is this:
"I screwed up once in a indie film and I'll never do it again"

Maybe you are so afraid of making mistake that you never going to learn anything else. To me is kinda sad, you are stuck and is all in your own mind. Not trying to do cheap psychology but is ironic that the character in the movie is stuck too.


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#37 Samuel Berger

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 12:48 AM

I guess they forgot their "cat in the window" shot.


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