Jump to content


Photo

Tied into pull


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Rolfe Klement

Rolfe Klement
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 668 posts
  • Director
  • London | LA

Posted 26 June 2005 - 02:14 AM

Quick question - if a decision was made to pull a stock by 1.5 or 2 stops - so the film was over exposed by 1.5 to 2 stops in order to work in the shoulder of the curve - where is the best action

Devlop normal and pull back in TK
Pull develop and TK normal

Which would provide us with the greatest flexibility?

thanks

Rolfe
  • 0

#2 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 26 June 2005 - 06:19 AM

Quick question - if a decision was made to pull a stock by 1.5 or 2 stops - so the film was over exposed by 1.5 to 2 stops in order to work in the shoulder of the curve - where is the best action

Devlop normal and pull back in TK
Pull develop and TK normal

Which would provide us with the greatest flexibility?

thanks

Rolfe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Rolfe,

If you pull process then you won't be in the shoulder of the curve. Pull developing would give you more flexibility, but if you want to be in the shoulder of the neg I guess you don't really want flexibility. You should carry out some tests as telecine's vary a great deal.

Stephen Williams DP

www.stephenw.com
  • 0

#3 Rolfe Klement

Rolfe Klement
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 668 posts
  • Director
  • London | LA

Posted 26 June 2005 - 11:59 AM

basically the film was overexposed to get a specific look so what is the best plan

dev normal - correct in TK
dev for 2 stop pull (therefore time quicker through bath) - normal TK

thanks

Rolfe
  • 0

#4 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 26 June 2005 - 12:39 PM

basically the film was overexposed to get a specific look so what is the best plan

dev normal - correct in TK
dev for 2 stop pull (therefore time quicker through bath) - normal TK

thanks

Rolfe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Rolfe,

Then Dev normal and TK grading to a grey chart if poss shot 2 stops over. That is the same as printing about 40 40 40. Low grain, more contrast black blacks!

Stephen
  • 0

#5 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 26 June 2005 - 12:41 PM

Well, was it overexposed for a specific look IN CONJUNCTION with pull-processing? Or IN CONJUNCTION with printing down? Because those are two different looks. Saying you overexposed for a look but do not know which path to post it means you really didn't have the look in your mind, because exposure is only half of the process to achieving the look. The post path is the other half of the look.

In other words, did you shoot with the look of overexposure and pull-processing in mind (low-con, pastel colors) or overexposure, normal processing, and printing down in mind (deeper blacks, richer colors.)

Or did you shoot with overexposure, normal development, and color-correcting back down to normal in mind?

Overexposure by itself is not a "look" unless you simply want the scene to look brighter than normal.

If you really shot this without knowing how to post it in mind, your safest bet is to pull-process it at least by one stop to get the density closer to normal and then color-correct it for the look you want. Plus some telecines might give you some noisy results in the bright highlights if your negative is too dense.

As for a dense negative darkened in post giving you better blacks, you can set your blacks at "0" or whatever with any footage, even if underexposed (you'd just have a lack of shadow detail if underexposed, plus more grain.) It's not like printing at high printer lights. If the goal is simply decent blacks in a telecine transfer, you can expose normally, you don't need to overexpose.
  • 0

#6 Sam Wells

Sam Wells
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1751 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 26 June 2005 - 12:55 PM

What are the results you want ?

What stock ?

It seems strange to want to pull V2, but... I did see "Birth" recently and went "hmm...."

What I wonder is if 2 stop pull on Vision neg really really represents a 2 stop difference in effective speed; certainly a 2 stop push is not 4 times the speed IMO/experience.

-Sam
  • 0

#7 Rolfe Klement

Rolfe Klement
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 668 posts
  • Director
  • London | LA

Posted 26 June 2005 - 03:21 PM

doing experiments hammering stocks - only one can (400ft) of 5205 - while on a project

so stock overexposed by 2 stops - the intention was the pastel dreamy low-con look

BUT now the film in the can could turn out to be critical to a missing narritive link in a project - and we want to retain as many options as possible....

having said that .... I shot some 5218 at 4 stops under (as an experiment) then normal dev then correct in TK and it looked great -

but I might follow David's advice and pull one stop in dev then TK to taste

sound good?

thanks

Rolfe
  • 0

#8 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 26 June 2005 - 03:38 PM

so stock overexposed by 2 stops - the intention was the pastel dreamy low-con look


Rolfe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Rolfe,

I would pull the 2 full stops if you want a pastel low con look. You can always add contrast in telecine later.

Cheers

Stephen
  • 0

#9 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 27 June 2005 - 10:47 AM

"Pulling" process reduces contrast and speed. "Pulling" more than one stop risks contrast mismatch. Since "pulling process" is usually done by speeding up the processing machine to reduce time in the developer, you do run the risk of some non-uniform development, having the tail end solution times too short, or inadequate washing.

I'd suggest no more than a 1-stop pull (to reduce contrast), and correct the rest of the overexposure in telecine. With that much overexposure, you may begin to see a bit of compression in your highlights. Some telecines may get noisy in the highlights due to the very dense negative requiring more gain.
  • 0

#10 Rolfe Klement

Rolfe Klement
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 668 posts
  • Director
  • London | LA

Posted 27 June 2005 - 05:14 PM

thank you for the advice

Rolfe
  • 0


Abel Cine

The Slider

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Metropolis Post

Willys Widgets

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

Opal

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Technodolly

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

CineLab

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Tai Audio

CineLab

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Opal

Abel Cine

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Willys Widgets

CineTape