Jump to content


Photo

Lets make a cinematographers FILM !


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 Algis Kemezys

Algis Kemezys
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 85 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Montreal

Posted 27 June 2005 - 02:50 PM

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.
Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter. It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?
  • 0

#2 Filip Plesha

Filip Plesha
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1267 posts
  • Other
  • Croatia

Posted 27 June 2005 - 02:57 PM

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.
Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter.  It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I can think of some visual-only films, for example short films shot by Guy Bourdin on 16mm Kodachrome.
  • 0

#3 Chance Shirley

Chance Shirley
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 256 posts
  • Director

Posted 27 June 2005 - 03:38 PM

I think making a cinematography.com "chain-letter" movie would be fun.

However, when I'm lucky enough to get to DP a movie, I have no problem being told what to do by a director with an "untrained eye." The way I see it, when I'm DP, my job is to do whatever I can to get the director the shot he wants. I'll let him know if I think a shot isn't going to work, but if he insists on a "bad" shot, that's his right as director.
  • 0

#4 Micah Fernandez

Micah Fernandez
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 June 2005 - 07:48 PM

Won't the 'bad' shots reflect on us though? I'm worried because I've been involved in a tragically unprepared Indian short, and though I tried my best to make each frame to look as best as I could (even to the point of overstepping my role into the unhelpful production designer's) a lot of the shots would not pass my approval if I were directing.

Chain stories are usually done online. A chain movie sounds like an interesting idea.
  • 0

#5 Chance Shirley

Chance Shirley
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 256 posts
  • Director

Posted 28 June 2005 - 02:43 AM

Won't the 'bad' shots reflect on us though?


Good point. Maybe a DP with more experience than me could clear up the issue of how much control a cinematographer has (or should have) on a movie set.
  • 0

#6 Dan Salzmann

Dan Salzmann
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1143 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Paris, France

Posted 28 June 2005 - 08:11 AM

The role of the cinematographer is to interpret the director's vision. I don't see this as a competition but as a collaboration. Movies or more precisely the dynamic behind their creation often involves what some may see as overstepping or overlapping into different departments.
Often the DP must communicate certain needs to the set designer, wardrobe person, make-up artist etc.
All this requires tact, psychology and a non-domineering attitude.
The director is like an orchestra conductor that oversees the BIG picture but can not play all the instruments - that's what the musicians are for.
It is definitely bad to have a "power struggle" type attitude in a film production.
Sometimes interesting approaches can come from a director's "bad ideas".
If I am asked to do something that is clearly not good I will explain why to the director in clear and non-condescending terms.
If the director really insists on something lame I usually will do it if it does not upset the production schedule and shoot another version for coverage. This "path of least resistance" can often save time if the discussion is obviously going to take longer than just shooting and then getting on with it.
In the end we are all there for the same reason - To make the best possible film with the time and resources that are available.
  • 0

#7 Micah Fernandez

Micah Fernandez
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 28 June 2005 - 12:17 PM

If the director really insists on something lame I usually will do it if it does not upset the production schedule and shoot another version for coverage. This "path of least resistance" can often save time if the discussion is obviously going to take longer than just shooting and then getting on with it.

Is this the general rule/sentiment? I thought I was just being lazy and taking the easy way out by shutting up and setting up in silence.
  • 0

#8 DavidSloan

DavidSloan
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 642 posts
  • Director

Posted 28 June 2005 - 01:54 PM

Is this the general rule/sentiment? I thought I was just being lazy and taking the easy way out by shutting up and setting up in silence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well suppose a director asks you for a certain angle and you refuse. Do you think you'll get much work, after that? LOL :lol:
  • 0

#9 jon w

jon w
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 28 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Vancouver

Posted 28 June 2005 - 02:15 PM

The cool thing about this board is that the members range from students to working proffesionals (and everything inbetween).

myself in the mid to lower part of the catagory. still shooting a lot of free stuff to build my reel / experience. which means that for a while i'll be working with directors that are fairly new. this is frustrating because no matter how much work you put in, and how great the footage is, if anyone else in the chain isnt up to par, the whole project suffers. there are a dozen shorts out there that i shot, that i would never show to anyone because of how bad they are, even if im proud of how they look! depressing and discouraging.

my hope is that once more established, i'll be working with with directors (and everyone else) that are more established, and everything will be ok.

i want to learn from the director, and feel confident in him/her, but its hard at this stage of the game.
  • 0

#10 Rik Andino

Rik Andino
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 783 posts
  • Electrician
  • New York City

Posted 28 June 2005 - 10:11 PM

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.
Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter.  It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Great here another DP who wants to be a Director.
Hopefully when you direct your "Cinematographers" film
You won't give the actors poor or no direction...
Because worse than a badly shot film is a badly acted film.

You shouldn't attack Directors they're most of us bread & butter...
There's not much money shooting for yourself. :)
  • 0

#11 drew_town

drew_town
  • Sustaining Members
  • 383 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • Southeast US

Posted 28 June 2005 - 10:59 PM

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.
Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter.  It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Directors are pale with cinematographers telling them how to direct. You need to find someone you can actually work with, not compete with, because quite frankly most cinematographers don't make the best or even good directors.
  • 0

#12 Algis Kemezys

Algis Kemezys
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 85 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Montreal

Posted 29 June 2005 - 03:16 PM

HeLLO ! Thank you all for answering.
I guess while celebrating my birthday I sounded a bit over zealous. I think you all made great points.
True it's fantastic being a collaborator ans interpreter to a good story and director.Truely thats what it is all about. Maybe Cinematographer is a Documentary... I guess I just like cinematographers who went on to be great film makers Like Lean and Kubrick. I have actually found obsticles or perameters set by the Director can make you invent wonderfull new things that you on your own never would produce.
That is truely one of the best feelings.And I have really scored with that.

Edited by Algis Kemezys, 29 June 2005 - 03:17 PM.

  • 0

#13 Matt Pacini

Matt Pacini
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1246 posts

Posted 29 June 2005 - 04:45 PM

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.
Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter.  It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Your statement/suggestion reeks of just the sort of lack of faith in their talent and abilities, as you are complaining about.
Pot calling the kettle black, it seems.

If you think directing a film is easy, (and if you think a film looking "pretty" is just as important as a well directed story and good performances coaxed from actors) then I think you SHOULD go ahead and make your movie.

MP
  • 0

#14 Algis Kemezys

Algis Kemezys
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 85 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Montreal

Posted 31 August 2005 - 11:35 AM

I guess what I said above there was a bit too biased for anyones good. True I have enjoyed in the past the parameters given to me by those in charge and worked with those ideas tio produce something that was greater than I would have created otherwise. In the end I thought wow I created that under those directions. The cinematographers film would be something of a chain letter type approach but in todays world very few people have the time or gumption to work outside of the box where there is no funding to help people out. Instead I am leaning to a film idea where cinematographer offer there greatest clips into something that explores this dynamic as an exercise in the compiled documented footage but by putting many people work all together in a David lynch type way might prove interesting. If a photography magazine can put out an issue devoted to particular type imagery certainly a cinematographers film showing the best footage in many different situuations would be compelling in it's visual style and commitment to the art of the New mellenium.

I guess when I made that above claim I was workling with someone who wanted me to only really fill the frame with the face and that to me seemed like a greater waste of time and cinematography because the surrounding information in any portrait comes from the stategic placing of the subject in context to their lifestyle. I was simply thinking how did this directior get ther funding to create something that only took peoples faces into account with the details of their life in the surrounding place of exposure.

Thanks everyone for being inspired enough to write and sorry about coming off as a rouge cinematographer provocature.
  • 0

#15 Richard Boddington

Richard Boddington
  • Sustaining Members
  • 5482 posts
  • Director

Posted 31 August 2005 - 02:00 PM

The most important part of any movie is the script. If you have an incredible script it's hard for even the worst film making team to make it a complete disaster.

The cinematographer is just another guy who uses his talents to support the script. The movie should never be a "cinematographer's movie," it's not about the DOP. It's about the story.

I would rank great actors, after the script, in terms of importance.

R,
  • 0

#16 jeremy edge

jeremy edge
  • Guests

Posted 31 August 2005 - 02:41 PM

I think in the last few years we have seen the emergence of more directors who make sure their dp is a "Bad Ass MF" and want the films to look visually stunning.

I even though "Mr and Mrs Smith" was a pretty film ,and it really didnt have to be.
I could probably think of a dozen others I've seen in the last year that were "pretty" and many of them were bad movies ! lol

For ex. I hated "Dark Water" but like some of the shots and looks they used in the movie.
  • 0

#17 Greg Gross

Greg Gross
  • Sustaining Members
  • 869 posts
  • Harrisburg,PA

Posted 01 September 2005 - 12:55 PM

Hello Algis Kemezys,

Do you have a script yet? What's the story? I have a three day weekend off and
I can start writing the script. I presume that we have to go shopping for money.
Can we get SAG actors? I suggest we get M. David Mullen ASC for our DP and I
would like to write and direct. By directing I'll be able to get close to Mr. Mullen
and learn the process of filmmaking. Do you want film,digital cinema,HD? Let me
know and I'll get on the phone to Panavision and check on availability of the Gene-
sis camera, if you want digital cinematography. I'm opting for 35mm,Panavision. Of
course I'm sure we'll want to go with David's advice on camera. Thats of course pro-
viding he excepts the job. We have to make him a professional offer. On second th-
ought maybe we should ask Mark Douglas to direct and I'll be AD. I have a story
let me know what you think, ready:

Bush pilot,ex-military pilot. He sees something while flying that he's not supposed
to see. Lets say location is in Alaska. Anyway his daughter is abducted/kidnapped
in order that he keeps his mouth shut for a certain period of time. She's a diabetic
and time is running out! People who abducted her have no knowledge of her being
diabetic, no medication was taken with her. He decides to go after her and get her
back. A lot of flying action!

You know this will be a lot of hard work!! I presume that you are the producer.
What would you think about the film being produced,directed,photographed by forum
members. Sweet Jesus I wish we could afford Helinet! Here's my proposal: If you
want to go with it,let me know right away. I'll start writing script. I suggest:

1. Algis Kemezys- Producer
2. Mark Douglas- Director
3. Greg Gross- Writer/AD
4. M. David Mullen ASC- Director of Photography

You are not to far away from me in Canada, I'm in Pennsylvania. I could fly up
with finished script for a proposal/meeting. We could both fly out to California
and talk to Mark Douglas and David Mullen if that would be acceptable to them.
Algis,let me know soon and I'll get working on script.

FADE IN
A quiet early morning in the state of Alaska. Elk and Moose can be seen foraging
near the edge of a lake,its misty,a little foggy. The sun is rising,its dim yet and
sitting right on top of a snow capped mountain. Across the lake the edge of a run-
way can be seen with its approach lights flashing. A Beech Baron 58 can be heard,
its engines at take-off power. The aicraft appears,lifting off the runway through
the early morning mist,fog,disappears.

Controller(tower)
November-Zulu-Niner-0ne-Niner-Eight
Turn Right 270 Degrees,Maintain 3000 Feet
NICK
(left hand on yoke,right hand on throttles,headset on,
wearing brown leather flight jacket)
Roger Barrow.....November-Zulu-Niner-One-Niner-Eight
Turning 270 degrees....Maintaining 3000 Feet

Greg Gross
  • 0

#18 Richard Boddington

Richard Boddington
  • Sustaining Members
  • 5482 posts
  • Director

Posted 01 September 2005 - 04:32 PM

Some how Greg I get the impression you are not 100% serious.

R,
  • 0

#19 Greg Gross

Greg Gross
  • Sustaining Members
  • 869 posts
  • Harrisburg,PA

Posted 01 September 2005 - 11:24 PM

I'm very serious,not kidding. I'm ready to start! Going to need a lot of money.
It will be a film by cinematographers,members of our forum here. I will work
for no pay. We will have to pay our DP and our director. Are there any takers?
Lets make a film! We'll all come together and write it,produce it,direct it and ph-
otograph it. Then last but not least,sell it. Who knows how to raise money for a
project like this? Anyone?

Greg Gross
  • 0

#20 Algis Kemezys

Algis Kemezys
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 85 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Montreal

Posted 02 September 2005 - 08:15 AM

Holy Cow!!! GG,

What a fresh breath of optimistic enthusiasm. Producer is a bit too much of a title for the likes of me.
But don't let me slow your" Keffy" Greek for good vibe. Because of your powerful and clear take charge position your more sightful into the Producing game than I.

I like what Peter Greenaway does when he does it correctly. Sure he's had some overwhelming flops getting his technique right but when he does it's really quite fasinating. He also works through a series of numbers to complete an idea within the context of the film. Days of the week, countdown from !00, the completion of the pillow book ! Further at a Press conference I asked him about his look. To me they looked ocasionally like a photographers style and indeed in some cases it was just that. If he found a photographers style of photograph he would use that as a guide like into his own footage. So certainly a movie using so much talent would have to be pinned uniquely with a lot of visual style.

I hope we all can keep up the conversation and arrive at something Great ! Now that my currentl project "MiMeToLITHs" is almost in the DVD Canister....

Attached Images

  • falassa3_copy.jpg

  • 0


FJS International, LLC

Tai Audio

Broadcast Solutions Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

CineLab

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

CineTape

Opal

Rig Wheels Passport

Aerial Filmworks

The Slider

Technodolly

Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

The Slider

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Metropolis Post

CineLab

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Opal

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

CineTape

Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Wooden Camera

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

Abel Cine