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Military Film?

16mm film magazine

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#1 Rob Hite

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:40 AM

Hi, I bought these 16mm mags and thought they were all empty.  I have a few of them still loaded (unexposed) and just wondering if anyone has any idea what type of film would be in them.  I have no idea how old they are and havent seen any markings.  Thanks in advance.


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#2 Rob Hite

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:50 AM

Sorry, here's the picture that should have been in the original post.  The only other info on the mag besides telling which way to load is that its a type U magazine.

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#3 Simon Wyss

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 10:23 AM

The Eastman-Kodak 50-ft cartridges introduced in 1931 for the Simplex Pockette camera, nothing military


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#4 Perry Paolantonio

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:50 AM

You'll probably need to open them up to take a bit of film out for testing/inspection to determine what's in there. If you send it to a lab they should be able to do that for you. 

 

Are they definitely unexposed? It'd be cool to see if there's anything on them. I've got a 16mm Kodak magazine camera that has 1930s kodachrome still in it. I've been meaning to send it off to have it cross-processed to black and white, just to see if there's picture there. 


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#5 Rob Hite

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 03:12 PM

I'm fairly certain the four that are taped and have film in them are unexposed, since they're all showing 50ft left. Usually these mags are stamped property of Kodak and the thought the military ones were stamped property of US Govt. I figured I would expose one then cut a few test strips and see how it goes.
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#6 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 03:51 PM

There were US WWII gun cameras that had mags that looked like these,  but maybe they are different.


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#7 Rob Hite

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 04:29 PM

There were US WWII gun cameras that had mags that looked like these,  but maybe they are different.


That's what I was thinking but all the gun mags I've seen online have that textured finish and are stamped property of the us govt. These have a smooth finish and no stamp. Maybe they could be a later model I guess. One other thing, the supply side doesn't take a normal spool, rather it's a small spool and clip like the takeup side. Should make reloads interesting.
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#8 JD Hartman

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 08:18 AM

IMHO having worked for a supplier of mil./government hardware....  If these mags were manufactured for any of the branches of the US military they'd have a part# on them and possibly a contract #.


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#9 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 09:12 PM

I have a friend who is a military historian, and I sent him the picture you posted. He does not believe them to be military, as he said they would have some sort of acknowledgement of that on the magazines themselves - either a stamp for the appropriate branch, or as JD said, a number for identification. 


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#10 Mark Dunn

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:12 AM

Surely they have more value as collectors' items? The chances of being able to get anything useable off the film after many decades are very slight.

It's complicated enough to get an image onto film in the first place without playing Russian roulette with the material.


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#11 JD Hartman

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 06:05 AM

Lets look on FleaBay....using 16mm film cartridge as the keywords.  

 

https://www.ebay.com...ge&_sacat=63821

 

Not so rare and none in "sold" listings.


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#12 Rob Hite

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:53 PM

I exposed a reel and cut a few test pieces.  It's double perf and has remjet.  Are there any color films that use remjet?  What's the best way to go about identifying the film?  Here's a pic of the emulsion side.  I was going to develop in Caffenol, Rodinal (stand) and C41 with some test strips.  Thanks for the replies.

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#13 Simon Wyss

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 12:52 AM

Colour negatives and colour positives have a soot gelatin backing. Kodachrome and some other reversal colour films had, too.

 

Remjet is an abbreviation of back layer removal jet. Underwater nozzles spray onto the film towards the end of an alkaline prebath prior to the first developer. Brushing and sucking away of the black gelatine flakes happens at the same time. I know that Eastman Kodak uses the term, wrongly, and I won’t get tired correcting that rag.

 

It’s black backing or black back layer or antihalation layer or antihalo backing or whatever but not “remjet”.


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#14 Rob Hite

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:02 AM

Colour negatives and colour positives have a soot gelatin backing. Kodachrome and some other reversal colour films had, too.

 

Remjet is an abbreviation of back layer removal jet. Underwater nozzles spray onto the film towards the end of an alkaline prebath prior to the first developer. Brushing and sucking away of the black gelatine flakes happens at the same time. I know that Eastman Kodak uses the term, wrongly, and I won’t get tired correcting that rag.

 

It’s black backing or black back layer or antihalation layer or antihalo backing or whatever but not “remjet”.

Ok so the term remjet is the process not what the backing is called?  Also, I asked the question in my last post incorrectly...What I meant to say is, are there any black and white films that use the black gelatine layers?


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#15 Rob Hite

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 07:20 PM

Thanks again for the replies.  I tried developing with 3 different processes rodinal stand, caffenol and C41.  The C41 turned the emulsion into goop and the rodinal and caffenol turned out a black negative so Im guessing the film is one of those ME-4 or like type processes.  So, Ill fill the empty mags with some film I can process and enjoy my grandparents old 16mm camera.


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#16 JD Hartman

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 07:30 PM

Had you considered contacting Kodak to ask what type of film would have been loaded into these carts?


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#17 Simon Wyss

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 12:34 AM

What I meant to say is, are there any black and white films that use the black gelatine layers?

 

Not that I knew of. Black and white negative films generally have a tinted base, grey or blueish grey, that absorbs enough light to prevent highlights from burning out. Black and white reversal films have an undercoat that gets bleached and dissolved out during processing. There are negative and direct positive films with an undercoat, today rather coloured than material, and there is one positive print stock, ORWO PF 2 plus, having a dyed subbing, the first and only black and white positive film with an anti-halo protection. Recommends itself as a fine grain taking film, if one can live with blue-only sensitivity of 8 to 10 ISO.

 

Kodachrome was a multi-layer panchromatic black and white stock, basically, and so had a black backing. The point is projection for which a colourless base is needed. In glass plate photography you’d paint the back side of your plates with dark lacquer, employ a black velvet back pad or use tinted glass to suppress excess light.


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#18 Rob Hite

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 08:48 AM

I found out what the film was, Ektachrome 7255.  I don't suppose anyone has any suggestions on how to process it.  I have 2 full mags left.


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#19 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 12:35 PM

This is the old Ektachrome Commercial. It needs ECO2 process which was already outdated when I started ECO3/7252 process in 1976. It has a remjet backing; It is extremely unlikely to still give a useable result. You could try processing it as a B&W negative. 


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#20 Rob Hite

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 11:19 PM

This is the old Ektachrome Commercial. It needs ECO2 process which was already outdated when I started ECO3/7252 process in 1976. It has a remjet backing; It is extremely unlikely to still give a useable result. You could try processing it as a B&W negative. 

Yeah did that with rodinal and caffenol ended up with a black negative.  C41 dissolved the emulsion.


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