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#1 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:06 AM

Will be doing my first infomercial sort of job for a geology company. Meaning I have to be shooting outdoors for hours of coverage.

 

The camera's an F900. I have a high quality Fujinon AT2 ENG zoom which can resolve 1080.

As well as 2 Digiprimes. A 14 and a 28.

 

There will be an interview (shot on digiprime) which will stem all of this captured B-roll together, however out in the field, I'm not sure if I should try outdoor coverage with 2 digiprimes or just stick with the ENG zoom for ease/comfort.

 

I'm positive the Fujinon will be easier, but I'm not sure it will match super well when cut back and forth with a lens which was asking for 20 grand only 15 years ago.

 

Has anyone gone out in the field for documentary coverage with only primes lenses on an ENG before?

What was your experience? Did you have to make any specific adjustments?

 

Thanks for any and all input.


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#2 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:24 AM

Generally I,d say use the zoom for sure, but I dont know that one.. its not a HA series ?  I had a HA13x4.5BERM .. that would certainly cut into any digi prime shots.. sorry dont now the AT2..? is it HD spec.. 

 

Ah sorry I see you say it is.. depends what your shooting, the environment (for changing lenses) and how much time you have to get the coverage.. but logically I,d say the zoom for ease of use and speed..


Edited by Robin R Probyn, 10 August 2017 - 08:26 AM.

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#3 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:35 AM

Technically the lens is SD however after testing it's only slightly less sharp than the digiprimes


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#4 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:35 AM

I don't think that the interview and B roll necessarily have to match each other in terms of sharpness. If it's a real concern, then shoot the digiprime material wide open, and the zoom stopped down a little. You're almost certainly going to have to use the zoom for some shots anyway, so why not use it for all the b roll?


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#5 Michael Rodin

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:53 AM

Opening up on Digiprimes will only make them sharper. They're close to diffraction limited and optimized for shooting wide open, just like Ultra 16. Both are sharper than Master Primes and absolutely need diffusion on closeups unless you're after an unnaturally harsh image.


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#6 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:59 PM

Opening up on Digiprimes will only make them sharper. They're close to diffraction limited and optimized for shooting wide open, just like Ultra 16. Both are sharper than Master Primes and absolutely need diffusion on closeups unless you're after an unnaturally harsh image.

Perhaps, but the reduced depth of field can help to create the illusion of softness.


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#7 Michael Rodin

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 01:54 PM

Can be... But more often it's the opposite: foreground looks sharper when it's the only thing in focus. What'll certainly help is soft lighting (soft in contrast too, i.e. generous fill), lack of rim light (create separation with color) and lens diffusion. Start with a moderately heavy HD Classic Soft or Soft FX and add mist diffusion to taste.


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#8 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:21 PM

Opening up on Digiprimes will only make them sharper. They're close to diffraction limited and optimized for shooting wide open, just like Ultra 16. Both are sharper than Master Primes and absolutely need diffusion on closeups unless you're after an unnaturally harsh image.

Lenses for smaller formats always tend to be sharper than their 35mm equivalents, but I don't think Zeiss have ever claimed that DigiPrimes or Ultra16 get sharper as you open up, only that they are as sharp wide open as when stopped down, specifically edge to edge. 


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#9 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:30 PM

No lens gets sharper at full aperture, that's just physics. There are always some aberrations that will worsen with a larger aperture (even if the effect is subtle), more reflections from larger glass surfaces being used (since no coating is 100% effective), and the effects of diffraction don't kick in until you're well stopped down, even for a small format.

But it's true that DigiPrimes are among the highest resolving lenses Zeiss has ever made.
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#10 Michael Rodin

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 04:03 AM

B4 primes tend to be sharper at T4 than T8 (on a camera, haven't tried a projector), even the all-spherical Elite HD. So diffraction must be taking effect pretty early on 2/3". As to Digiprimes, you're right, they don't get sharper as you open up from say T4 to T1,6. They don't get softer either, what gets slightly worse is CA. Going from T16 or 11 to wide open should result in more resolution though, should test if it can be seen on an F900 (still got one).


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#11 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:32 AM

Well, yes, if you're opening up from f11 or f16 then the lens will get sharper, as you're reducing the effects of diffraction. It will continue until you hit approximately f5.6, then it will start to get softer again, and you'll start to see aberrations appear, however subtly.

 

On paper, the DigiPrimes vastly outperform the zoom that Macks is using, but as long as all his lenses out resolve the venerable f900, he should be ok, particularly if he shoots the interviews with his primes, and uses the zoom for all the b roll.


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#12 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:16 PM

You might also make a useful difference to picture quality by recording it to something other than the internal deck.
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#13 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:57 PM

Doesn't it really depend on the B material.. landscapes,buidlings .. static subjects on a sunny day..(primes.. maybe rent a couple more to get the coverage ) or.. actuality .. down a mine .. live event.. no time.. no permit .. people with guns who dont want you there..etc.. got to be the zoom.. or rent a HA series zoom.. I wouldn't ever compromise the coverage, for worrying about some tiny rez difference on a bit of paper ..   within reason..

 

Doesn't diffraction only occur at very small apertures.. like 16/22 and over.. dont think Ive had any perceivable diffraction at 5.6 to 8 . in 20 odd years of shooting B4 2/3 inch ..how is a lens sharper at T4 than T8..?  or do I need new glasses.. 


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#14 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:09 PM

I don't know the exact numbers, but if a 2/3" HDCam sensor has a pixel diameter of say 4-5 microns the theoretical point at which diffraction starts to limit resolution would be around f/8 to f/11. Theoretically.


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#15 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 12:54 AM

Thanks Dom.. but is that ever anything the human eye could detect.. ? ... at 16/22 you can see it in the EVF .. but 8-11 I never once have..or had any mention from Post.. from Luton..to the Sahara and the Arctic.. a bit too much pixel peeping going on me thinks.. used to just be cars, hot water pipe cladding and tax avoidance .. :)


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#16 Michael Rodin

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 02:35 AM

It has to be really bad a diffraction to be seen in EVF as most of these viewfinders don't resolve HD. Even at 22 you were likely seeing it only with max peaking. On an HD monitor or a projection, different story...


Edited by Michael Rodin, 14 August 2017 - 02:37 AM.

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#17 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 07:09 AM

Yeah maybe.. but 8-11 I never had a problem.. let alone 5.6.. 


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