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2 PERF CONVERSION COST FOR ARRI & MOVIECAM


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#1 Giorgio Taricco

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:20 PM

Hi all, seems impossible to find a good 2 perf camera at reasonable price, so how much would be a 2 perf conversion for a Arri IIIIC or Moviecam Compact? Any tips?

Thanks

Giorgio
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#2 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 01:14 PM

Well, there are a few people with the schematics for the parts for the 2C, but talking them into doing it, basically means you need an open wallet. Generally the conversion requires quite a few components, including gears, the pulldown eccentric and an all-new gate, which is expensive to machine and polish. Then you've gotta find the right ground glass, which is nearly impossible. 2C conversion would be over $5,000 USD easily.

The Moviecam is far too complex, you'd need an all-new electronics package to deal with the speed differential, let alone the mechanics, which are far more complicated then the 2C. Where it's not "impossible" it would probably cost tens of thousands to make a Moviecam 2 perf today. Then you'd have a 28lb camera that nobody wants.

Honestly, I don't understand the obsession with 2 perf at all. It doesn't use the full width of the 35mm frame. It also has a lot of issues with hair in the gate and there is no room for making reframing changes. Honestly, Super 35 3 perf is a FAR better format. It uses the full width of the 35mm frame and it's a native 1.75:1 aspect ratio, which means you can crop to any format you want really. Plus, with labs competing on pricing today and the availability (here in hollywood) of short ends for less then half the retail price of 35mm stock, it's actually pretty inexpensive to shoot 3 perf. We just did a short film, shot around 7000 feet of 35mm and the stock + processing/transfer cost was around $3k. That's acaully about what it costs to shoot the same length project on S16!

Back to 2 perf... the days of finding a great deal on a 2 perf camera are over. The pricing on them is going up because people think they have value, but in reality they really don't unless you're renting them for serious bux. As a camera owner, you're stuck to shooting 2.40:1 forever AND dealing with the limitations of the format. We're building a 235 2 perf camera because we found a movement and having A 2 perf camera for rental will be great for attracting people to our business. At the same time, it's a huge risk but it has huge value too.

If you want a sync sound 2 perf camera, you're really looking at a Arricam SL or ST, which will run you around $25,000 to $35,000 USD because there are literally 10 movements and when they go for sale, people want a lot of money. Two just sold for $32,000 each! If you're OK with an MOS 2 perf camera, the Russians made lots of them and I've seen a few 2C's go for sale recently, just gotta keep an eye out.
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#3 Giorgio Taricco

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 05:30 PM

Hi Tyler, that's a good answer but:
It's not an obsession but just an amateur desire...
You have focalised some good points but:
the image area of a cropped 2.35:1 3 perf are nearly the same of the Techniscope but you are shooting more film and it will cost more as I'm not living near Hollywood...
If you want to shot Anamorphic you will end with very very expensive 1x33 lens
And finally here on marketplace there was a beautiful Arri 3C techniscope camera kit for a bargain but sadly at the time I had already bought a Aaton Minima kit. I will see, anyway thanks for your tips.

Giorgio
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#4 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 06:20 PM

Cropped 3 perf to 2.40:1 is a LARGER image then techniscope 2 perf, by a few mm in each direction (22mm wide 2 perf vs 24.90mm wide 3 perf). It may not sound like a lot, but think of it this way, techniscope 2 perf is only 2mm taller then super 16 (9.47 vs 7.41).

Also, I don't know how much 2.40:1 shooting you've done but I've done a lot. I love the aspect ratio and I've been cropping stuff shot on film and digital since I was a kid. I learned at a young age; having the room to change the crop position and do pans up and down for coverage, is a real life saver. With anamrophic 4 perf, especially super 35, you've got so much room for adjusting the frame it's not even funny. With techniscope 2 perf, you really can't adjust the frame without loosing negative size. It starts to look like "good" super 16, with a similar field of view, rather then 35mm. The whole benefit of shooting 35 with it's wider field of view, low noise and wiggle room for making adjustments in post, kinda goes out the window.

Short ends are sold all over the world, they're just rarer today then they were 10 years ago. So getting inexpensive film shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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#5 James Compton

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 01:42 PM

Giorgio,

 

 Talk to Bruce McNaughton. His company converts 4perf 35mm cameras to 2perf and 3perf. I have had some modification work done by him. His camera modification experience is top notch.

 

http://www.cinematog...showtopic=75027


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#6 Giorgio Taricco

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 02:12 PM

Thanks but already sen that. They have cameras I'm not interested in, I will wait for a good Aari 3c or a converted Moviecam

Giorgio
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#7 James Compton

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 02:32 PM

Thanks but already sen that. They have cameras I'm not interested in, I will wait for a good Aari 3c or a converted Moviecam

Giorgio

 

 Talk to Bruce. Sent him an email. They will also convert ARRI 35 III, 35 BL2, 3, and 4. I think they will also convert the 535B.


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#8 Sam Hand

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:45 AM

We have two Techniscope 2perf cameras for our production. If you have the gates widened to full perf to perf, as we did, adding a couple more 22mm to 24mm plus, you achieve more framing options. As for gate hairs one must use compressed air always between loading and blow the mag throats out as well. Its not a big problem and frankly if you get one you can remove in post often very simply.

Its a great format at stock 22mm, or modded, Its larger than S16 and can look fabulous on a good scan to DI. And is still a cost savings and longer mag time than three perf, appx 8.75-9min per 400'

The cameras still come up.
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#9 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 05:58 PM

I have one. May not be anyone's cup of tea, but it works. Sync sound. Lenses, the whole shooting match. Russian. 

 

I had Anders Banke perform a full 2 perf conversion to a Kinor 35H. Including new electronics, prism resilvering, video tap conversion. It uses it's native OCT19 lens mount. I have a full set of serviced Lomo primes for it as well as the 20-120 OPF18 zoom. As I am out of the business I need the space in my garage. Hit me up if any one is interested. Also have a couple of 4 perf Kinor 35H outfits, and at least 2 Moviecam SuperAmerica packages (4 perf).

 

2 perf is a wonderful, inexpensive format. If you aren't cropping down from the 2.40 width it is much bigger than Super 16. Do you have to be careful? Yes. But you should be anyway. The hair in the gate thing just really isn't a factor in my experience. I am always very proactive on cleanliness.


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