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Fs7 and Lighting ratio

lightmeter fs7 ratios

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#1 Gabriel Wilson

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:31 PM

Want to use my light meter for ratios in tandem with my fs7. Curious if I need to compensate at all? Also curious if anyone had experience using false colors for ratios with the fs7.  


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#2 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 11:07 PM

Be careful if you are shooting Cine EI.. the recording will always be at native ISO ..I believe its 2000 ISO same as the F5.. but please check that .. but pretty sure it is..   of course the whole point is you can rate it how ever you want.. but the internal recording will always be a set ISO.. same as you might with film.. if your going to only use your meter I guess it would be good to shoot some tests first incase they are totally different for some reason..


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#3 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:39 AM

I think they changed Cine-EI on the FS7 (or maybe it's the MKii) to have it set at 1600; at least the last FS7 wouldn't let me choose anything but 800/1600/3200 in Cine-EI SLOG3.
Meter is helpful to get an overall idea of your lighting ratios; but i personally find looking at the waveform f the LUT image to be most helpful (and the waveform of the SLOG just to double check). I'm not really a false colors fan; but they also work well.


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#4 aapo lettinen

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:22 AM

with the mk1 the cine-EI was 2000 but it may have changed on the mk2. 

 

A good practical ISO for the FS7 is somewhere around ISO1000 by my experience and one can experience blue channel compression madness if underexposing too much, especially with warm lighting. 

So protecting the dark tones /shadows may be a good idea depending on your lighting style

 

# the anecdote of the time was that the FS7 has "the same" sensor than the Sony F5 has but "the signal processing is different". 

The sensor resembles quite much the F5 look indeed so this may very well be true, but the noise levels are miles away from the F5. 

 

I think it's more like that "the FS7 uses the same sensors than the F5 but just those ones which did not clear the F5 Quality Control or accidentally dropped to the floor once or twice during manufacturing"  :lol: 

 

I myself pictured in my mind a Sony manufacturing line where the F5 sensors are moving around on the upper conveyor belts and under them goes the FS7 manufacturing line which catches all the sensors and grease which accidentally drops from the F5 line so that the scraps don't go to waste  :lol:

 

The FS7's I have used had close to double the base noise compared to F5. this may vary from camera to camera 


Edited by aapo lettinen, 23 October 2017 - 10:33 AM.

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#5 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:00 PM

With all current Sony cameras (except the F65), you should use a waveform or false colour to set an 18% grey card to its respective SLOG2 or SLOG3 values (32% IRE for SLOG2 and 41% for SLOG3), and use that reading to calibrate your meter accurately for the camera. 

As NONE of them (F5, F55, FS7 or FS5), appear to match the native sensitivities claimed by Sony. 

I discovered this with my F5, and subsequently encountered the same issue with each of the other cameras when shooting with them. Here's a post I wrote about my original findings: http://dreamsmiths.c...ative-iso-tests

 


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#6 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:06 PM

with the mk1 the cine-EI was 2000 but it may have changed on the mk2. 

 

A good practical ISO for the FS7 is somewhere around ISO1000 by my experience and one can experience blue channel compression madness if underexposing too much, especially with warm lighting. 

So protecting the dark tones /shadows may be a good idea depending on your lighting style

 

# the anecdote of the time was that the FS7 has "the same" sensor than the Sony F5 has but "the signal processing is different". 

The sensor resembles quite much the F5 look indeed so this may very well be true, but the noise levels are miles away from the F5. 

 

I think it's more like that "the FS7 uses the same sensors than the F5 but just those ones which did not clear the F5 Quality Control or accidentally dropped to the floor once or twice during manufacturing"  :lol: 

 

I myself pictured in my mind a Sony manufacturing line where the F5 sensors are moving around on the upper conveyor belts and under them goes the FS7 manufacturing line which catches all the sensors and grease which accidentally drops from the F5 line so that the scraps don't go to waste  :lol:

 

The FS7's I have used had close to double the base noise compared to F5. this may vary from camera to camera 

 

 

According to the inter web the MarkII is also 2000.. i think it was the smaller fs5 that had a firmware upgrade that changed the ISO in EI ..interesting to hear the difference between the f5/fs7 re noise..I guess there is a reason for the price difference then..  same sensor  but not the same processing power.. ?


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#7 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:43 AM

While I didn't futz around with it too much; the FS7 we rented in Cine-EI  defaulted to 1600; and I then put it in 800/1600/3200. I haven't got it near me now to play with anymore; but it felt oddish to me. I didn't pay it much mind since 800/1600 was pefect for what we were doing around sunset/sunrise but i do think much of that was changed in firmware and i think also bled over to the AS7 area.

 

As for the FS5, used it on a shoot with an FS7; and there's differences in overall build quality as well (plus it's tiny in comparison) and then menus aren't as deep if memory serves. WHile it may have been user error it didn't match EXACTLY to the FS7 we had despite the same lenses and same recording (SLOG) but i may have just messed it up in camera a bit myself. It wasn't a huge difference, it was more so an issue I think, of using one SLO3 Lut over to the other in Resolve and a minor green tweak.


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#8 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:55 AM

If it was in Cine EI mode it will record  ISO 2000.. nothing else..cant be changed .. you can change the ISO when using a MLUT.. but the internal will always be 2000..  so at 800 you were over exposing a stop and bit.. which is what alot of people do anyway raise the noise floor..

 

Most odd you didnt have 2000 come up as default.. are you sure its was set to Cine EI.. you can also record Slog in custom.. it might have been set up like that.. but then you cant use any LUTS.. and all the paint/camera/WB setting are live.. in Cine EI they are all blanked out as its presumed it all be done in post.. you also only have the 3 preset WB settings..

 

1600 ISO is the default for HG 7 and 8.. 


Edited by Robin R Probyn, 24 October 2017 - 10:06 AM.

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#9 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 01:27 PM

Pretty sure it was full Cine-EI and not set to "custom," but really didn't need to dig in too deeply as once we got the SLOG up with a MLUT, we just shot and it looked great; next time I have an FS7 out I'll be a bit more thorough. You're probably right, though, it was just adjusting the curve of the MLUT on the display.


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#10 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 11:13 PM

Yes for better or for worse.. Sony,s idea of EI is to treat it like film.. the ISO will never change.. 2000 is deemed the setting for max DR above and below grey.. 1250 for the F55.. most likely due to the GS circuitry taking up sensor real estate. .. but you can at least change the WB between presets..changing the EI as you say will only effect the MLUT... i.e. you set it to 1000 ISO.. EVF got dark you open up 1 stop.. your recording is "over exposed" by 1 stop..bring down in post.. less noise.. Ive had FS7,s as B cameras but never set one up directly myself.. but 2000 should have come up as the default ISO.. 1600 is HG7/8.. I think the other STD one s are 800..

 

Its a tricky set up as you can also record Slog in custom.. but of course no MLUTs or Sony S Gamut color.. not really much point really.. but being Sony they want to make every conceivable permutation do able.. ! and its easy to record the MLUT too.. even when you don't want to..but still bang for the buck I think the Fs7.. their best selling camera ever..


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#11 Gabriel Wilson

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 11:34 PM

How are you exposing EI 1000? Zebras? False color?
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#12 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:14 AM

Not sure the fs7.. on the f5/55 zebra/WFM etc will all read the Luted image.. actually fs7 I believe you can choose.. personally I use the in camera 709/800 MLUT.. in the EVF.. and mostly just go by eye.. with zebra /wfm on assign.. there is also a good sort of hidden function that is only in the assign menu.. called Li/Low.. by pushing what ever assign button you set it to.. 1 push will give you the hi light in the VF and 2nd push will give you shadows .. that the Slog is actually recording.. very handy to see what windows are doing.. and its amazing what data is actually there in a burnt out 709 MLUT image.. I dont know if the fs7 has this function and for some reason Sony have never really pushed it either..?.. I only found it through reading other users comments.. 

 

Never liked false color myself.. too confusing for my small brain ..

 

Mostly I just shoot with the native 2000 ISO TBH.. if its that dark and gloomy that you are worried about noise better to go to HG 7/8 curves anyway.. get more data down there with a more standard curve..


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