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Scoopic vs. Eclair ACL


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#1 Dave Perry

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 02:13 PM

I’m looking at a couple of 16mm options, an Eclair ACL or a Canon Sccopic. I know the Scoopic is geared towards news gathering but what are your thoughts on the two for narrative work? Any pitfalls in each I should look out for, pros and cons?

 

Thanks.

 

dp


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#2 Heikki Repo

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 02:26 PM

Feature wise Eclair ACL is a professional 16mm camera whereas Scoopic is closer to an amateur camera.

With a later model ACL you get 400ft mags, crystal sync 24 fps and non sync speeds 8/12/50/75. Self blimped. Using a proper adapter you can also use PL mount lenses on it. It is a steady but lightweight camera. Definitely better choice for narrative work.
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#3 Dave Perry

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 02:32 PM

Feature wise Eclair ACL is a professional 16mm camera whereas Scoopic is closer to an amateur camera.

With a later model ACL you get 400ft mags, crystal sync 24 fps and non sync speeds 8/12/50/75. Self blimped. Using a proper adapter you can also use PL mount lenses on it. It is a steady but lightweight camera. Definitely better choice for narrative work.

 

Thanks Heikki. I was wondering about the ability to adapt PL lenses to the ACL. I have PL Schneider so that is a what I'm looking for.

 

dp


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#4 Samuel Berger

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 02:33 PM

Are those your only choices?

 

I wouldn't go for the Scoopic. No crystal sync and very small film loads.

 

But you need a newer ACL or you'll be stuck with 100ft-200ft magazines.


Edited by Samuel Berger, 29 October 2017 - 02:33 PM.

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#5 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 04:30 PM

All the ACLs can take 400' mags.  With the early version Tomson 24/25 fps motor one has to use the English 400' mags. These mags are fine, no problem, unless they're never serviced.  Actually the little rubber drive wheels on the take up are quite easy to replace, even for a clever DIY type.  The 400' English mags being bad...belongs in the realm of no longer usefull social myths, like the earth being flat and so forth...

 

Dave,  the ACLs have a big threaded flange at the plane of the C mount.  Mount adapters for almost anything were professionally made back in the day.  The PL one came later, and costs a bit more,  but there are some cheap variants if you can find them. The best, cheapest strategy is to buy an ACL that has all the components and adapters that you need.

 

Do you live near someone that can show you an ACL so you can get a feeling for the camera system....Worth a trip actually..


Edited by Gregg MacPherson, 29 October 2017 - 04:36 PM.

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#6 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:16 PM

I was fiddling with my English 200ft ACL mag and dreaming of complimenting it with an actual camera head. Beautiful workmanship. All mag spindles still rotate smoothly. I would love to modify the 16mm sprockets and pulldown.
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#7 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:19 PM

The impeccable Les Bosher in the UK still makes his surperb PL-ACL adapter, ie

http://www.lesbosher...r ACL Page.html
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#8 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 05:43 PM

Feature wise Eclair ACL is a professional 16mm camera whereas Scoopic is closer to an amateur camera.

 

These are very different cameras, the ACL is intended for shooting sync sound (it's pretty quiet running), while the Scoopic  is an MOS camera, which was used as a professional camera, but more for news than  regular production work. There was also a single system sound model of the Scoopic available.


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#9 Dave Perry

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 07:09 PM

Do you live near someone that can show you an ACL so you can get a feeling for the camera system....Worth a trip actually..

 

Hi Greg. Yes, I found one in a used camera shop recently and spent some time messing with it. The person running the shop that day knew nothing about it. The owner of the shop was on vacation but when he got back I asked him about it. He said it's there on consignment and would find out what the owner wants for it. He's having a hard time finding the owner right now but knows who it is. The camera was actually used to make a movie by its original owner at a local university. I'm hoping this week I can get a price on it. He says the owner has accessories but in the shop all it has is one 200' mag attached to it and that's all, no power or batteries.

 

The eye piece seems a little wonky to me. I had a hard time adjusting the level of the image. As I'm sure you know, and I discovered, there is a ring that rotates and turns the image based on how you have the eyepiece oriented. That mechanism seemed to work inconsistently but i was able to level the image regardless of how I positioned the eyepiece.

 

So far the responses you guys have given me are a great help and much appreciated. I'm really hoping I can get it. The shop owner wants to get it out of there, just a matter of confirming a price from the camera owner. Any online resources you guys know of would be great. I've found a couple already.

 

Thanks.


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#10 Heikki Repo

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:28 AM

Take a look at the camera and see if it is "Made in England" or "Made in France". Generally speaking the French ones are better built.

As for 400ft mags, Super16inc (which is my go to place for servicing my ACL now) won't even service English 400ft mags...
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#11 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 03:56 AM

Trust me, the earth is not flat, though it may have been a useful myth for very early sailors...

 

I ran a very worn, well serviced English ACL I for a few years with English mags and it was good. It took a while to fix a take up tracking issue that came from the rubber tyres on the take up arm.  Decades later, on a whim, I tore down and lubricated a few 400' mags that were here, and easily spotted the issue with the rubber tyres...Had some made,  about a $ each,  fixed that problem...

 

Don't know why Bernie doesn't do them (English 400' mags)...they are a bit more complicated...more parts. If the opinions of experienced techs means something, I talked on the phone to Bruce at Aranda once about ACLs and he thought the English 400' mags were fine.  But,  I do think the French mags are better myself, to be fair,  simpler, a few less parts, usefully less sophisticated.... 


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#12 Pavan Deep

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 05:21 AM

I have experience of working with both cameras. The Scoopic is a great fun camera, incredibly easy to load, but mine was noisy and not crystal sync. I bought my ACL2 from a forum member and am very happy with it. It is very different from the Scoopic, much better, it is more compact, it’s quieter and is crystal sync. It has the most versatile lens mount and with adapters I can use virtually any lens including PL lenses.
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#13 Dave Perry

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:08 AM

Thanks for the input guys. Looks like I'm the new owner of an Eclair ACL! Going to pick it up today. Now, need to get it CLAed and PL adapter.


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#14 Samuel Berger

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:02 AM

Thanks for the input guys. Looks like I'm the new owner of an Eclair ACL! Going to pick it up today. Now, need to get it CLAed and PL adapter.

 

Congrats! Is it an ACL 1, 1.5 or 2?

Pick it up, then off to Bernie with it for that servicing: http://www.super16inc.com/


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#15 Samuel Berger

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 10:09 AM

 

Thanks Heikki. I was wondering about the ability to adapt PL lenses to the ACL. I have PL Schneider so that is a what I'm looking for.

 

dp

 

Which PL lenses do you have? If they are for 35mm they will be around twice the focal length in 16mm.


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#16 Mark Dunn

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:09 AM

 

Which PL lenses do you have? If they are for 35mm they will be around twice the focal length in 16mm.

 Crikey, here we go again.

If intended for 35, they will be exactly the same focal length. Their FoV will be about half.


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#17 Samuel Berger

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:12 AM

Haha yeah I saw that. Oh well, the "edit" button is gone, the legend will continue to live on... ;-)


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#18 Mark Dunn

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 12:28 PM

Fair enough ;).

You're a good sport.


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#19 Dave Perry

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 02:40 PM

 Crikey, here we go again.

If intended for 35, they will be exactly the same focal length. Their FoV will be about half.

 

No worries. I'm well aware of the fact that focal length is not changed by image plane size. I have a set of Schneider Xenon FFs.


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#20 Will Montgomery

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:54 AM

I have a crystal Scoopic. Great camera for casual shooting...lens is actually very good although fixed. Easiest loading 100' 16mm camera ever made.

 

All that said, if you're shooting a feature or if it's your only camera, the ACL would have many advantages.

  • The 200 and 400 magazines for the ACL are super helpful on a feature. Yes, you can get 400' adapters for the Scoopic MS but it's a little unwieldy and hard to use compared to the ACL.
  • ACL's are more likely to be available in Super 16.
  • Interchangeable lenses on the ACL give you many more options (although that Scoopic lens is really good in the middle apertures).

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