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Original The Texas Chain Saw Massacre 1974


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#1 fatih yıkar

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 11:22 AM

When we talking about film stock of original evil dead ( Top 10 Films to Watch for Cinematographers) topic, I always wanted to ask this

Is that correct original The Texas Chain Saw Massacre was shot on Ektachrome 25T 7252?

I mean how can they achieve the lighting with 16mm 25 ASA, grain level of the movie doesn't high that much for a 16mm especially for 25T speed stock maybe night scenes look a bit dark and grainy but totally movie look great. Also photos from the set seems they don't use big lights,carbon arc or hmi because of the low budget...

10389124_1036290813066047_3415555495515130280_n-min.jpg

texas-min.jpg


Edited by fatih yıkar, 19 November 2017 - 11:36 AM.

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#2 Mark Dunn

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 12:45 PM

Not a huge problem- remember the shutter speed is about 1/60 at 24 fps so the stop in bright sunlight would be about f8.
One wonders why it was used- maybe they cut the original to save rush printing costs?
BTW there was very little if any HMI lighting in 1974. Certainly not on a no-budget picture.

Edited by Mark Dunn, 19 November 2017 - 12:57 PM.

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#3 Samuel Berger

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 01:00 PM

Daniel Pearl ASC was the cinematographer. He used an Eclair NPR and, for some crane shots a Bolex 5 with MST motor.

Isn't the shutter speed of the NPR 1/48 at 24fps? I should look it up. The NPR does have a variable shutter though.

 

Pearl shot for exposure, he said, without being able to light for mood or anything, something he was only able to do in the 2002 remake.

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, they believed shooting reversal at ASA 25 would help disguise the fact that the film was a blow up from 16mm.


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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 04:42 PM

ECO 25T was designed for printing or duping from because of its lower contrast.
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#5 John Holland

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 05:22 PM

It was the first stock I had to use when started at the doco. company I worked for. So as David said it was a lowish stock that was then printed onto a Kodachome release print stock . One of the first films I  had  to shoot was a Medical training film a hip replacement to hold the depth of field I need a stop of about 5.6 I used so much light that blood in the wound started steaming ! Not a great time .


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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 09:28 PM

Yes, there was a time when some 16mm filmmakers were shooting ECO and printing it onto Kodachrome, which had the result of the prints being more archival in terms of color than the original.


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#7 Joe Taylor

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 10:12 PM

I think the original TCSM is a masterpiece.  As well as a time-capsule like so many movies from the 1970's are.  Real locations.  Gunther Hansen who played "Leatherface" wrote a pretty great book about the making of TCSM.  Fans of the film or low budget filmmaking should read it.  


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#8 Mark Dunn

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 07:12 AM

ECO 25T was designed for printing or duping from because of its lower contrast.

So, thinking it through, which I didn't, shooting TCSM on reversal saved a generation in the blowup to 35, because they could go straight to  35mm. INs from the A&B rolls, instead of via an IP?

OCR>IN>release print instead of OCN>IP>IN>release print.


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#9 Doug Palmer

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:22 PM

Yes, there was a time when some 16mm filmmakers were shooting ECO and printing it onto Kodachrome, which had the result of the prints being more archival in terms of color than the original.

Some ECO from 1977 I have still looks reasonable for colour.

As Mark says, maybe saving one generation was the motive in TCSM. Also ECO was very fine grain, perhaps finer than the neg stocks then. Would be nice to see another  slow, low contrast version of Ektachrome. :D


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#10 Mark Dunn

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:23 PM

Or even any version.

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#11 Tristan Noelle

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 07:38 PM

Daniel Pearl is on the DVD commentary for the film, it's very informative. He said his biggest lights were a Nine-light and a 10K, which he used for the night sequences. IDK if he gelled them blue for the night effect or whether that was in the printing, though.
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#12 Giacomo Girolamo

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 03:07 PM

Daniel Pearl ASC was the cinematographer. He used an Eclair NPR and, for some crane shots a Bolex 5 with MST motor.

Isn't the shutter speed of the NPR 1/48 at 24fps? I should look it up. The NPR does have a variable shutter though.

 

Pearl shot for exposure, he said, without being able to light for mood or anything, something he was only able to do in the 2002 remake.

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, they believed shooting reversal at ASA 25 would help disguise the fact that the film was a blow up from 16mm.

 

Thanks for upload that video! (and in vimeo, which I can watch at my current location)

Very interesting and definitely one of the best horror movies of all times.


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#13 Doug Palmer

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 04:58 AM

Another cost-saver with ECO... you could make a cheap workprint on black and white stock, so maybe they did this.  Colours can be easily checked over a lightbox.

And another advantage in the days when cleaning film wasn't so advanced as today, any remaining dust spots would show as black rather than white. Therefore not as noticeable.


Edited by Doug Palmer, 23 November 2017 - 05:05 AM.

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#14 Mark Dunn

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 05:31 AM

Another cost-saver with ECO... you could make a cheap workprint on black and white stock, so maybe they did this.  Colours can be easily checked over a lightbox.

And another advantage in the days when cleaning film wasn't so advanced as today, any remaining dust spots would show as black rather than white. Therefore not as noticeable.

I came across b/w rushes from colour neg the other day, so that was doable too. I assume it was a panchromatic print stock.

Incidentally, the neg was from 1969, so it must have been 7254, but there wasnt time to look at the edge code. History runs through your fingers when you have a Steenbeck.


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#15 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 02:28 PM

I remember articles from American Cinematographer in the 70's, and other publications, asking why Europe had already embraced 16mm color negative once 100T 7254 came out in 1968 while in the U.S., color reversal was still preferred until the late 1970's, and the answer was dirt, the general feeling was that 16mm processing in the U.S. wasn't clean enough... and white specks in 16mm negative was more distracting than black specks in 16mm reversal.  But it might have also been that 16mm filmmakers preferred the reversal workflow in the U.S. and those with a budget for lighting preferred the cleaner look of 25T Ektrachrome Commercial over 100T Eastmancolor, especially for industrials.


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