13 replies to this topic

[Aaron Martin @ OH]

Hi!

 

I'm starting work on a documentary short next week, and I'm hoping to get some advice on getting the most out of 7222 given the following specs and conditions:

 

- Production will take place at a single exterior location over two consecutive days

- The equipment is a regular 16 Bolex RX-5, a tripod, a light meter and me

- The camera has a Kern lens set with 10mm, 25mm and 75mm lenses

- The current forecast calls for one day to be partly sunny, and for overcast conditions the next

- The temperature will be around 40 degrees Farhenheit

- There's no power, so no lights

- I have some limited filtration options using the filter slot on the Bolex. I currently have a Wratten #8  filter (it's yellow), and a Wratten ND .50

- The final image will be printed, not telecined or scanned

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

Aaron

 

[Samuel Berger]

Sounds fine so far. So, voice over narration only then? Will you be interviewing people at all? If you are, even with natural light I'd take some foam boards as reflectors.

 

Be careful with that tricky filter slot. Tape it up so there are no light leaks. Tape along the whole edge of the camera just to be sure, and close the viewfinder when not using it.

 

7222 rates at 200T/250D, are you looking for very grainy or fine grain?

 

Good luck!

[Wilfried E. Keil]

I do not know how familiar you are with a Bolex RX-5.

If you shoot with sound it is better to use the motor and a 400ft magazine with a barney, if you have it.

Do not forget to compensate the exposure because of the RX-system with 2/3 stop.

I would set the lightmeter at an other ASA rate, so you do not forget it.

Do not forget the different shutters at different speeds.

Some tables you find in some manuels are still compensate the 2/3 stop. So be careful.

 

I would always use the Wratten #8 filter. Do not forget to compensate the exposure with 2/3 stop.

And if there is the sun use the ND to get a lower stop.

It is better to have more ND´s. Do would not use a aperture higher then 11. It is better to use one between 4 and 8.

If you have no sun shade, take something with you can use it to make shadow for your lens, so that you get no lens flares and back light.

I also would use a reflector or syrofoam for some close-ups. But try it to make it not to hard that the difference from the other shots are not too high.

 

The other important things like exposure rate and the closing of the viewfinder still Samuel wrote.

 

You can tape the slot if you want to be safe, but if the camera is a good one, you do not need to. But it is better to do it, if you do not test it without before.

 

Have a nice shoot!

[Aaron Martin @ OH]

Sounds fine so far. So, voice over narration only then? Will you be interviewing people at all? If you are, even with natural light I'd take some foam boards as reflectors.

 

Be careful with that tricky filter slot. Tape it up so there are no light leaks. Tape along the whole edge of the camera just to be sure, and close the viewfinder when not using it.

 

7222 rates at 200T/250D, are you looking for very grainy or fine grain?

 

Good luck!

It's a silent film - so no sound will be recorded in the field. And I'm looking for fine grain for this project.

 

Thanks!

[Aaron Martin @ OH]

It is better to have more ND´s. Do would not use a aperture higher then 11. It is better to use one between 4 and 8.

If you have no sun shade, take something with you can use it to make shadow for your lens, so that you get no lens flares and back light.

I also would use a reflector or syrofoam for some close-ups. But try it to make it not to hard that the difference from the other shots are not too high.

 

The other important things like exposure rate and the closing of the viewfinder still Samuel wrote.

 

You can tape the slot if you want to be safe, but if the camera is a good one, you do not need to. But it is better to do it, if you do not test it without before.

 

Have a nice shoot!

 

My .5 ND filter will take about 2 stops out of the exposure. So I should be OK even in blasting sunlight - correct?

 

Thanks!

[Stuart Brereton]

The Sunny 16 rule would put your exposure at f16 at 1/250th  using 7222, which equates to f32 1/3 if your shutter speed is 1/48 second. That means you're going to need 6 or 7 stops of ND to get down to f2.8 or f4 in full sunlight. I don't know what a .5 ND is. Usually ND filters are marked as .3, .6, .9 etc. You'll need an ND 1.8 or 2.1

[Gregg MacPherson]

Does the RX5 have a variable shutter like the earlier ones? That'll help if you don't have the right NDs.

 

Is there a slower ASA stock you could use...?

[Samuel Berger]

The Sunny 16 rule would put your exposure at f16 at 1/250th  using 7222, which equates to f32 1/3 if your shutter speed is 1/48 second. That means you're going to need 6 or 7 stops of ND to get down to f2.8 or f4 in full sunlight. I don't know what a .5 ND is. Usually ND filters are marked as .3, .6, .9 etc. You'll need an ND 1.8 or 2.1

 

Why f2.8 or f4? Just wondering if I missed anything, as I always aim for f5.6.

 

Edit: Never mind, he said he wanted fine grain. That's going to be tough with 7222.

Edited by Samuel Berger, 20 November 2017 - 10:06 PM.

[Stuart Brereton]

 

Why f2.8 or f4? Just wondering if I missed anything, as I always aim for f5.6.

16mm has a lot of Depth of Field. Most people I know would aim to minimize that by shooting at wide stops, but as this is a documentary, perhaps some depth is necessary, hence f2.8-4

[Gregg MacPherson]

Aaron, I know you call it a documentary and say you have a small window of time,  but the fact you are shooting on film with a Bolex and no crew, gives me hope that this is an observational piece where the potential exists for every frame to be important,  and the duration of the shoot can be relaxed. My advice is to be patient, extend the duration of the project....and cram as much concept development in there as possible beforehand....

[Samuel Berger]

16mm has a lot of Depth of Field. Most people I know would aim to minimize that by shooting at wide stops, but as this is a documentary, perhaps some depth is necessary, hence f2.8-4

 

Yeah I love a deep focus, I keep forgetting shallow dof is all the rage nowadays...

I do think he'll have a hard time getting that fine grain from 7222, though.

I guess this might be a good time to ask whether Vision3 50D color film can be processed as black & white. I never tried it. But I hear a lot about people doing that with older stocks....

[Mark Dunn]

The Sunny 16 rule would put your exposure at f16 at 1/250th  using 7222, which equates to f32 1/3 if your shutter speed is 1/48 second. That means you're going to need 6 or 7 stops of ND to get down to f2.8 or f4 in full sunlight. I don't know what a .5 ND is. Usually ND filters are marked as .3, .6, .9 etc. You'll need an ND 1.8 or 2.1

ND50's a legit Wratten. 1 2/3 stops. Odd, but right.

[Wilfried E. Keil]

To come back to the exposure:

With the Bolex RX-5 you have at 24 fps 1/65 if you not correct the Reflex system and 1/80 with correction. So your exposure time is lower then with other cameras.

You can also change the shutter as Gregg said, but be aware of the different motion blure.

You close the shutter a 1/4 if you put it on 1/2 and you have a corrected (Reflex system) exposure time of 1/122 and with 1/2 if you put it on 1 an exposure time of 1/188. But then you have not so much motion blur. You can also use it as an effect to see some water bubbles (I am not sure if it is correct English, sorry). This could be very nice!

I am sorry I am not familiar with north american weather at this time.

But I would expect with the normal shutter and the correction if the reflex system you have not more then a f11. And the wratten #8 needs a correction of 2/3 stop. And then you have a ND 0.5 with nearly two stops. So it should be no problem to shoot in this time of the year. We are not in full sunlight summer!

Yes if you want to have a deep focus then a f2,8 or 4 is good. But normally the best is at daylight a f5.6 and also with artifical light, but mostly you only have the change to have a f4 then. The deep of focus you normally should not controll with the aperture, but with the focal length, if you have the opportunity. If not, ok, then with the aperture.

But a f2,8 have other problems in the exposure, so try to be at a range of f4to f11 (better f8). And the depth of focus you will see through the viewfinder.

And do not be afraid of a bit overexposure. I know what others would say now. It is clear it is not a Kodak Vision, where two stops are not a problem, but 2/3 I would not worry. You can do more in a classical lab that many think today. (No I am feeling older then I am ;-) )

So do it! And do not think to much about this technical things! Do not forget your content, because of all the technical things!

I am sure you will learn a lot while you are shooting and the next time you have some expericence and it will be much better. As a filmmaker you are permanently learning...

 

Wish you all best!

[Gregg MacPherson]

 I don't know what a .5 ND is. Usually ND filters are marked as .3, .6, .9 etc. You'll need an ND 1.8 or 2.1

 

If you look on eBay you'll see people selling cheap NDs that have this wierd new indexing system.  We are used to 0.3,0.6,0.9 giving 1 stop increments, but maybe the Chinese math is different, or the old conventions are just ignored....so we see 0.5...etc...